{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/5q4rj4b73x/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Brooke, Marion M."]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1984-03-15"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Marion M. Brooke describes his numerous roles during his 40-year career at the CDC, including; parasitologist, educator, international public health consultant, and establisher\u003cbr\u003eof laboratory standards."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Dr. Marion M. Brooke describes his numerous roles during his 40-year career at the CDC, including; parasitologist, educator, international public health consultant, and establisher\u003cbr\u003eof laboratory standards."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/432/small/1722773291_19840315_Brooke_Marrion_M_faststart_1722773320.jpg?1722758921","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 19840315_Brooke_Marrion_M_faststart.mp4"]},"duration":5599.005,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/432/small/1722773291_19840315_Brooke_Marrion_M_faststart_1722773320.jpg?1722758921","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-globalhealthchronicles.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/247/432/original/19840315_Brooke_Marrion_M_faststart.mp4?1722773269","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5599.005,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["[AssemblyAI Transcript] 19840315 Brooke, Marrion M. [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Today is March 15, 1984. I am Bill Watson, the deputy director of CDC, and with me is Mister Jim Payne, a longtime employee of CDC who retired six years ago. And we are here to interview Doctor Marion M. Brooke, who is the associate director for health Laboratory Manpower development in the laboratory program office. And Doctor Brook is perhaps the longest term employee at CDC, having come with CDC's predecessor organization, the malaria control and war areas, in 1945. And Doctor Brook, could you tell us a bit about the circumstances of your coming with CDC? I have been told that you had some reservations about coming into government service.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=18.52,70.842"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. I was teaching at the University of Tennessee Medical School at the time, and Trabik Stubbs called from Atlanta to tell about the developments here. And I was offered a commission in the Public Health Service Corps as a senior assistant sanitarian or two striper. And I did have reservation. I had, of course, some of the same suspicion of the public about the feds. Having lived in Baltimore for about six years with my father in law, talking about that bunch down in Washington, I was pretty much sensitized to the possibility. But the program that was outlined was very challenging. But before I accepted, I called Doctor Goodrich White, who was then the, the president of Emory University. He had been the. I guess they're the dean of men, or dean of the School of Arts and Sciences when I was at Emory, and I told him something about my reservations, and he said, well, don't worry, it's a fine group. And anyhow, if you get there and you don't like it, we'll offer your position at Emory. And because I've never wanted her to leave, I've been very happy at CDC and I do have a position at Emory, but it doesn't pay anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=70.842,169.7"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe you were also active in the commissioned corps locally and nationally, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=169.7,175.42"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess it was 1947. The local commission organization was being formed, and I guess I was the second president of it. After that, over a period of years, I went up through the ranks of the National Commission Officers association, became the national president in 68 and 69. In those early years, because the commission corps wore both the army type uniform and the Navy type uniform, and that there was considerable rank consciousness. There was. The commissioned officers association in Atlanta passed a rule that no one could be a president or hold an office in the association that had the rank of a major above. They really had had their fill of the top during the, during the war. So there's that kind of junior officers. They wanted the junior officers to be the. That was the reason I was elected president. I'm sure people were rebels even than those they sure were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=175.42,255.88"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You wore the uniform of the organization to which you were assigned?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=255.88,259.56"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, basically those parts of the public health service that were close to the ocean or in the activities with the merchant marines, they wore Navy type uniform. People back in the interior wore army type uniforms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=259.56,281.342"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you wear uniforms to work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=281.342,282.83"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=282.83,283.07"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e All the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=283.07,283.478"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, all the time, full time. It was very nice. You didn't have to worry about what you're going to wear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=283.478,287.95"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e When did you come? In 1945. Was the war still going on when you came?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=287.95,292.278"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it was 19. It was July 1945.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=292.278,298.2"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So the japanese rover.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=298.2,300.856"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=300.856,306.08"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e When you came, where were the offices? Where was CDC or MCWA located?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=306.08,312.152"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, actually, Mark Hollis, who was the director at that time, was chief, I guess he was located in a volunteer building, and there were offices in the Rialto building that were scattered all over the place. The laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=312.152,327.438"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, those buildings aren't there anymore, are they? Are they downtown?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=327.438,331.63"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I think the volunteer building, I don't know what it's called a volunteer building now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=331.63,335.862"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Not, I believe it's still there, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=335.862,337.022"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e The reality is still there. Right. But the laboratory first got its door in a building at the corner of Baker and Peachtree, 291 Peachtree. And now it's just a big hole in the ground. But at that time it was the Baptist bookstore building. We occupied the second floor, in addition to the training laboratories and the lecture room and laboratories for parasitology. We were then part of the division of training and audiovisual. And so there were artists and physicians and scientists. And it was there that the insect museum under Harry Pratt got it starred. Also, the CDC library had it stored in that building. I remember the stacks were in a big building that had served as a vault of some sort, secure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=337.022,402.39"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e How many employees did CDC have or MCWA have in those days?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=402.39,406.27"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure I can give a good figure for that because they had a lot of employees in the various states helping the states take care of the control area around the war areas. That was its primary responsibility. But at that time, they were getting ready to, I guess, switch over to more of a peacetime type operation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=406.27,432.9"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e What was your position and responsibility then?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=432.9,436.036"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I came as the person in charge of parasitology, and our first big responsibility was to organize a training course in the laboratory diagnosis of parasitic diseases. The American Society of Tropical Medicine and I believe the public health association and one or two other organizations appealed to the Surgeon general of the public health Service at that time to take steps to see that the country was prepared to diagnose all of these exotic diseases that the soldiers were to return with, like amoebiasis, malaria, pilariasis and leishmaniasis and schistomiasis and so on. And so the idea was for us to train people in the public health, the state public health laboratories, and then encourage them to train people at more local levels. And at that particular time, MCWA actually paid for the travel and subsidiary of the people that were recruited from the state laboratories. It was a tremendous effort made, and we gave this course over and over again, six weeks in length, and there would be six weeks in between. We'd get ready for the next one, and then so on. So it went on like that for, I guess they must have paid for the people in the. In the state laboratories to come for a couple of years, and then later the course, as it is now, is to people in all types of laboratories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=436.036,544.64"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So as the war wound down, training of state people was a big effort at that time. What other kinds of functional things did MCWA do in addition to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=544.64,556.184"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, actually, because probably shouldn't talk about all of MCWA, but if I can talk about what we did in the beginning of the laboratory activities. Trevor Stubbs was here at that time. He was a physician, and he was a real thinker, and I don't know whether this was original with him, but he thought in terms of getting additional materials out to the states, because not everybody could come here. So it was even before this course was offered to that we started sending out extension materials and preparing stained slides or blood films that they would have to stain and diagnose. I meant to say that as far as that course was concerned, somebody at rather high level made the commitment that we would start the course on October 1, because there was a tremendous effort to get everything ready and all the supplies, the benches ready and so forth, and the 20 microscopes that had been ordered for the students arrived the weekend before the course was to begin. What we would have done if they hadn't arrived, I still don't know. But May Melvin was here at that time, and Lois Norman and Paul Weinstein and so on. I guess I should mention this, too, that prior to the decision to set up this training at MCWA, they had had Captain Paul Weinstein, and when I say captain, that's not a four striper, that's a two striper, had been asked to go around to various academic centers to see some institution that was in a position to take on this training effort, and he couldn't find any institution that would do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=556.184,670.628"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So was he in the public health service?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=670.628,672.62"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, he was a commissioned officer and he, by the way, is the president of elect of the American Society of Tropical Medicine. One of the organizations that stimulated this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=672.62,685.404"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Activity and this first course was in October of 1945, probably 1945 right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=685.404,690.772"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, was that the first training course of that sort done by MCWA or CDC?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=690.772,697.35"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Now the MCWA had had Amy Wilcox, who was an authority on the identification of the malarial parasites, to come and give courses on malaria. And also they gave training on the identification of anophelene mosquitoes and so on. And I guess how to the engineering aspects. But this was the. That was for MCWA staff. But this was the first effort in the training of the state and local personnel. Some other activities that were started early in those days. I think it was 1947 that doctor Alan Donaldson and I put on the first field training course down in Florida. And Alan, by the way, had been an associate of mine when we were in graduate school, school at Johns Hopkins. And he was an extremely fine person and it was a real joy to always work with Alan. Some other activities that started very early was the answering of epidemic aid requests. There was an outbreak of ambibiosis in a mental institution in Alabama. And within the first month I go to Alabama with Fred Brady, Doctor Brady from NiS of H and Bozovich. It was made up of a team of Ni's, of H and CDC. We worked there for quite some time finding what was the problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=697.35,797.46"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So there was a working relationship with NIH that early?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=797.46,801.108"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=801.108,802.54"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e How did that go?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=802.54,804.08"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e But as far as that particular epidemic investigation went very well and we had some misunderstandings a bit later that we may get to. There were probably other activities that were started quite early, but at the moment I can't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=804.08,819.024"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e What about research?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=819.024,821.32"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Was one. As a matter of fact, Morris, Goldman and I worked on a method for preserving stool specimens in connection with getting them shipped to a state laboratory or any laboratory. Polyvinyl alcohol fixer technique was developed and in 1949, and it's now used around the country in many places.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=821.32,846.8"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Didn't he also, didn't Morris also introduce fluorescent antibody?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=846.8,849.936"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. And I think that's a pretty good story. Morris came straight out of the army to CDC and Washington put in charge of the intestinal parasite laboratory. He was a real good research person and very meticulous and innovative. And I think he probably was the first person that CDC sent off for graduate work. And we were concerned with the differentiation of enamoeva histolytica, the causative agent of mamma biases and the non pathogens. And we wanted some technique of staining the bad organism red and the good organisms, maybe blue or green. So Morris got a long training award to go to Johns Hopkins. And while he was there, he found out about the work of Kuhn and Kaplan at Harvard on, on fluorescent antibody. At that time, it was just the identification of antigens and tissues. So Morris developed that, and he was successful in staining the Enamoeba histolytica. And he could differentially have it stain more brightly than these other organisms, but it didn't work out as a real diagnostic tool as far as amniobiasis was concerned. But he came back to CDC with his doctorate of, well, his SCD and from Hopkins. And it was about a year before that technique was picked up by any other group at CDC. And I think it was Bunny Thomason and Bailey Cherry worked with Morris and got his started, bacteriology. Of course, from then on, it kind of mushroomed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=849.936,965.56"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e In effect, the laboratory program of MCWA and CDC started with parasitology. When were these other disciplines added to broaden out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=965.56,977.408"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Seward Miller, who was a physician pathologist and a two and a half striper wearing a navy type uniform, was the first chief of the bureau of the laboratory division, I believe it was called, in 1946. And Burt Tiffany, who had been teaching microbiology at Long Island Medical School, he came, I guess, in 1947. And between the two of them, they undertook the gathering of the staff and the facilities for virology and bacteriology and so on. The virology laboratory was first open in Montgomery, Alabama, in the old buildings that had been used by the Rockefeller foundation for Rabies work. And Beatrice Howit was the first chief of that later, Morris Schaeffer, the Morris Schaeffer that caused all of the publicity with regard to bad laboratory procedures, became the, the director.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=977.408,1048.04"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Mister Plain smiles, I think he worked at Montgomery, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1048.04,1050.856"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e He sure did. And he knows MOrriS quite well. I guess it was my suggestion that Seward Miller got Martin Frobisher to come from Johns Hopkins to head up bacteriology. And he brought with him Miss doctor Elaine Updike and Elizabeth Parsons, who had been working with him on dip theory research for years. I think we can give credit to Burt Tiffany for getting Seward Miller to go after Phil Edwards, who was in Kentucky. And I think Bert didn't have any idea they could get Phil, but Phil Edwards came and headed up the bacteriology. Mycology was started, I guess, about 1947 or 48. And it was first, I think Leo Yellow went to Duke University with Conant, and there was some discussion about Conant, who was a famous mycologist, coming down to CDC, but that never took place. And Lee became the chief of mycology. He was the first one, first chief of mycology, and he still is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1050.856,1127.65"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You remember what year that was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1127.65,1128.898"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it was in either 1947 or 48. So Lee goes back a long ways, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1128.898,1134.426"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned diagnostic services. Weren't those done in the state?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1134.426,1139.17"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, they had a reference. When we started organizing this laboratory, the word got out that this, this big center was being developed and with all these specialists. And so we had some difficulty with private physicians and hospitals wanting to send their specimens to CDC, this federal laboratory, to get examined, because the state laboratories were supposed to be doing that. And we did get into some difficulty about that. Albert Hardy, who had been a public health service officer, and he was then the director of the laboratory in Florida, and he was very active with the association of State and Territorial Public Health lab directors, and he took on Seward Miller, and they had a pretty good discussion with regard to having it clearly understood that we serving as a reference diagnostic center for state public health laboratories. So a system was set up where the physicians and hospitals would send the specimens to the states. If they couldn't handle them, they'd send them to CDC. And our effort was to try to get the states in a position so that they could run the procedures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1139.17,1222.712"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e That's the system that's still in place, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1222.712,1224.536"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e It's the same system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1224.536,1226.73"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e These original labs were downtown in the building. When did the shambly labs come into existence?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1226.73,1234.89"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When actually shambly, and some people don't seem to recall that during the second World War, there was a big army general hospital, Lawson General Hospital at Chambly. And it was a big, rambling, one story structure, temporary wooden structures that were connected by covered corridors. And as the war wound down, the veteran administration took over the hospital. They didn't need all of the facilities, and so the laboratory branch started moving some of the facilities out there, like bacteriology was set up out there, and mycology. And like, I think, well, parasitology. We moved out there in 1950. The baptist bookstore building kept going up on the rent, and it finally got to a level where we could afford to convert the buildings, these ward buildings, into laboratories for. For parasitology. So we were in building 26 and 27, I believe, and mycology was in 27 a, where Lee and Lucille George and Morris Gordon were located.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1234.89,1321.84"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So the move to Chambliss started in when, 1950?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1321.84,1325.504"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it started before that bacteriology was set up, I think, there in about 19, I guess, 48, 49. So it's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1325.504,1336.458"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And then gradually the labs downtown were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1336.458,1339.066"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e All transferred out there, and virology didn't move into the Atlanta area until these facilities that stayed in Montcome Road developed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1339.066,1351.77"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e What about field stations in those days? Did you have activities in other places other than Montgomery? Well, I'm not talking about the work with states. I'm talking about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1351.77,1361.882"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Well, as a matter of fact, such an effort was put into that parasitology course. We had an officer stationed in Puerto Rico, Jeff Jeffrey. Doctor Jeffrey was still at CDC. He was in Puerto Rico getting fresh specimens shipped to Atlanta for these courses so that we could show them living schistosome eggs and the moving microphalaria in the blood. I can't recall because all of the field stations and when they actually occurred, but there were several of them because the technical development branch, chief technology Branch, the technology branch was located down at Savannah and then later Thomasville. Well, of course, the Emory field station was located there, and we had some contact with them, and Mel Goodwin had a big hand in that. I'm afraid I can't really relate all of those, but there were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1361.882,1433.584"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e The field station move started in those years, right? Yes, right. Having Savannah and other places.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1433.584,1443.66"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You talked about the temporary buildings, but did those offices and laboratories work out pretty well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1443.66,1448.388"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, those buildings were great from a standpoint of flexibility. You could put up a wall here, tear one down another place. But they had disadvantages. They were hot in the summertime and cold in the winter. And I remember Sadie Johnson Geiger later became misses. Geiger used to sit in the laboratory with a laboratory thermometer hanging over her head, and it would frequently get up to 95 to degrees. And in those days, if it got 95 to degrees in Washington, they would let everybody go home. It's hard to believe that we didn't have hardly any air conditioning in those days. You couldn't really justify it except for experimental tools and some delicate equipment. But offices were not people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1448.388,1505.56"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Didn't matter?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1505.56,1506.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it didn't matter, but we frequently didn't get to go home when it got 95 degrees here. But Sadie really kept track of that because in the winter time, the other situation was a problem. We would sometimes get announcements that it was going to freeze and that we were asked to let the water run in the faucets. So we'd go around and open all of them. And that worked pretty well, unless it was a real hard freeze. And then the. That the drains would freeze, and then the water would spill over and get onto the floor. And we'd come in in the morning and have a sheet of ice or water. Water didn't create much of a problem. We'd just take a drill and bore a hole and it would drain out. But the ice caused a little more difficulty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1506.24,1570.43"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e The work that went on out there was essentially then the same kinds of things on a broader base. Training of state people and research and reference diagnostic work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1570.43,1583.486"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Essentially the same sort of activities. That was when we were a section of parasitology and mycology and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1583.486,1595.56"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I've heard you talk about your involvement with the Armed Forces epidemiology Board.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1595.56,1605.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e My first contact with the armed forces epidemiological board was when a team was commissioned, was set up to go to the prisoner of war camp in career to help out an investigation of a dysentery that was occurring. The prisoners were dying of perforated ilia. And so the armed forces, through its enteric disease commission, got together. This group. And I always remember was that in Woodward, Iowa, where we were investigating another anti biases problem in the mental institution, when Justin Andrews, I think, was at that time the assistant chief of CDC, called me and told me about this situation. And he didn't exactly ask me to go as a commissioned officer. I was. I was told to go. And so it turned out to be an extremely interesting and rewarding professional experience. Albert Hardy, we created at that time what was called the joint dysentery Unit. And it was called joint because it was made up of pieces from various organizations. Like I was from the public health service. Albert Hardy was from a state public health laboratory. There was Don Mackell, who is still here. I guess he was with the. But he was with the state laboratory. And then there was army and the Navy personnel involved in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1605.24,1715.474"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e But did NIH have anybody on them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1715.474,1718.714"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't believe so. Now. Later, people came from so like LSU medical school. Bill Fry was there for a while, and Paul Weinstein. I guess Paul Weinstein came later and stayed there for the longest period of time. He, I think, was within eyes of h at that time. But that was a tremendous prisoner war camp. There were 85,000 prisoners when we arrived, and there were 185,000 by the time it closed up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1718.714,1755.26"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e That was in the days before the jet airplane. How did you get there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1755.26,1759.3"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we flew over in, I guess, the army, us air force planes. And it took about three hops of 13 hours to get over there. And this was kind of interesting. They really didn't know what I was. My being a commissioned officer in the public health service. Caused some confusion. Also, my name, Marion Brooke, caused some problem. We were traveling under army orders. And then. So then I would step up in a uniform as a commander. And then I present my passport. And it was a diplomatic passport. But that worked out all right. But I remember those travel orders. They were quite long, and they weren't xeroxed. They were in ditto purple. And it had. It said, doctor Mary and Brooke, blah, blah, blah, will proceed. And so forth. About halfway down the page, it said she will notify her correspondents. To address her in this sort of way. And these travel orders, of course, were sent to every place I was going to show up. And I didn't know whether I was going to be with the wax or the waves or whatnot. But it didn't work out. But maybe I should go back and tell a bit more about that prisoner of war. We did have something like 600 cases of amoebiasis. And about 2000 cases of vascular dysentery, or shigellosis. And the commercial companies at that time were developing a lot of antibiotics. And they were known to be effective against some of these diseases. But we didn't know how effective. So we worked out a system. Of randomly assigning these drugs. To these cases that were diagnosed. And we were surprised to have it monitored over the radio from Peking. That we were being cited as war criminals. That we were investigating biological warfare agents with these prisoners. And they had our numbers, and they had our names and ranks and so forth. And it turned out that one of this joint dysentery unit. A korean civilian, was the informant. But actually, if it hadn't been for these capitalistic american pharmaceutical houses providing these drugs. Drugs that they would have kept on dying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1759.3,1943.16"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e These were korean prisoners?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1943.16,1944.816"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, they were korean prisoners. Either korean or Chinese. I was there when the Chinese started coming into this ward tent. Where we had the sigmoidoscopic laboratory set up. And we had some medical students, some korean medical students assisting us. We started noticing that they couldn't talk to these people. And then we noticed that they were chinese. And most of them were somewhat taller than the Koreans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1944.816,1977.26"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Was there any follow up after the war on this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1977.26,1979.748"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yeah, because we had to write papers and monographs and so on. But while we were there, we arranged to have a survey conducted in the. These 20 pw compounds. These compounds would be made up of eight to 10,000 people in barbed wire enclosures. And we were interested in finding out what the prevalence of these various parasites might be. So we collect. It was done really, after I left, but we arranged to have these collected. And about 2000 specimens were sent back and they were preserved in pvA, fixative and formalin and examined either at CDC or at LSU Medical School laboratory. We also arranged to have sera collected from the amnibiasis cases because there was a lot of effort at that time to develop a serologic test for amnibiasis. And those sera were very helpful later in the evaluation of a test called the Mohn test. And it was called the Mohn test because misses mone was developing it and pushing it. Her husband was a pilot in the navy. He was a commander. And through his connections, there was considerable pressure exerted to have this test accepted for the armed services through this armed forces epidemiological board. But they were keeping, this was a commercial venture. They were keeping the way they made it a secret. And so they asked us, using those syrah we'd gotten in the career, to set up an evaluation. So misses Mohn came down and we gave the syrah. And at the same time she was doing it, Lois Norman was also running this kind of a precipitous. And Lois was having difficulty seeing this feathery type of peculiar precipitation. So she started using distilled water in the place of this expensive antigen and I think normal saline. And she noticed that she got the same federal regardless of what it was. So we gave misses Mohn some of these slides without her antigen, and she couldn't tell the difference between one and the other. And there's no correlation with the case of amoebiasis because Captain Moen or Commander Moen didn't take that lion down. I thought he wrote very inflammatory letters after that. And I expected him to land out there in the navy air station and come over and duel us, but never happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=1979.748,2163.93"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, the stories that I have heard that the epidemic intelligence service started during the Korean War and at least in part as a result of these charges back in about biological warfare and so forth. But you were doing epidemic aid before the EIS. That's what you're saying, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2163.93,2187.01"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Because within the first month we were out. And then there was some other. I can't even remember, I think there was another epidemic request from Ohio. And then there's this study in Woodward, Iowa. And these were really before EIS started, actually, when Langmuir came and started the EIS program, which I think had their first graduates in 51 or 52. That's right. We had a difficulty with Doctor Langmuir because he had the philosophy let these young EIS officers go out and perhaps make mistakes, or they'd learn how to do it, and they would go out and they'd just collect hundreds of specimens and send them back to CDC. And we in the laboratory were supposed to examine them, and it was just no control of it. I did have an understanding with Alec that, and in the case of amoebiasis or parasitology, that I would go out with their team to determine just how many specimens and how they should be collected and so on. And this actually took place in a very interesting epidemic situation in South Bend, Indiana, where Mickey Lemaitre was the chief EIS person. Bob Sapenfield was involved in first class, I think. But this was a real epidemic of amoebias. As a matter of fact, I had been out over a period of, I guess, 15 or more years to answer requests for epidemic assistance in about two dozen cases. And most of these turned out to be diagnostic problems rather than disease problems, emphasizing the need for training. But in this case, in South Bend, it was a real epidemic. But we arranged to have only 125 specimens examined and found 50% of them roughly infected. And then later, when we examined all 1600 people in connection with the treatment program, we found again about the same percent. I didn't miss it all in all. So it was, there were other follow ups. We did a family contact study because the city of South Bend was concerned about the fact that 50% of the people in this plant were infected. They were out in the community, and they were afraid of the spread, but we did nothing. May Melvin and I took an active part in that. We didn't find any evidence of spread into the community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2187.01,2366.93"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1957, you were appointed chief of microbiology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2366.93,2371.85"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2371.85,2373.13"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e What was that organization like at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2373.13,2376.93"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that it consisted of everything except virology. Virology in 57 was still over in Montgomery, so it included parasitology and bacteriology and mycology. And we had, I guess, about, I think there were nine units and over 100, as I recall. May Melvin was the chief of the parasitology training unit. Irvin Kagan had come and recruited him from the University of Pennsylvania. He was head of hell anthology. Morris Goldman of protozoology, Leah Yellow, mycology, Phil Edwards, enteric bacteriology, and Joe Shubert, microbiology Diagnostic Laboratory. Kubricka, who was here by then, and he was in charge of the tuberculosis laboratory, and Bailey Cherry was in charge of the special projects research Laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2376.93,2445.038"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You were at the VA hospital at Shamley?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2445.038,2447.814"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, we were out at Shamley, and we did move here as a microbiology laboratory, I guess, in 1960.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2447.814,2457.454"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Here being Clifton Road.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2457.454,2458.518"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Clifton Road. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2458.518,2459.438"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Was in 15.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2459.438,2460.774"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Seven seats in two locations. Right. Chambly and the Peachtree 7th building downtown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2460.774,2467.924"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right? I think so. Now, of course, as I recall, though, they were scattered in many, many buildings. I don't recall exactly how many.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2467.924,2475.772"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e But the warehouse and the motor pool were in separate locations. And two other locations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2475.772,2481.06"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e We actually had a. During those early years in the motor pool monkey colony. To have specimens. That was just right down the street from 291 peach tree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2481.06,2495.36"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You obviously were involved then and around when these Clifton Road facilities were being designed. There are some fascinating stories with respect to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2495.36,2507.376"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, as a matter of fact, when I came over here to be interviewed. Mark Hollis and Trevig Stubbs were talking about this big center was going into development. I thought they were just giving me a pitch. But within, really, the first few months, they were asking us to draw plans. And I had to draw a plan for the parasitology laboratory. And I can't recall when we saw the first layout of a building. But I remember the layout. It was an e shaped building. And it was going to have. Every office and laboratory was going to have a lot of windows. Because back in those days, you still couldn't justify air conditioning. But a number of us were very concerned. About building a laboratory in the south without air conditioning. And a few of us wrote memos to see what to recommend that something be done. And if you look at the plan or the floor plan of building one. I think it illustrates transition. Because when that building one was being designed here for Clifton Road. It was actually two buildings. In one, there's an outer kind of a shell shaped shell, which has windows. And this supposed to be for the offices. And it was understood there was not going to be any air conditioning in those offices. The center part of that u is the laboratory core. And it had two corridors with labs on each side. And it was going to be air conditioned. But that was a way to get air conditioning for the laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2507.376,2618.626"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2618.626,2619.082"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I guess by the time it was actually bill. Administrators were going to have to occupy those outside offices. So, too, they were air conditioned. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2619.082,2630.028"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Were you involved in the purchase of the landing here? That fascinating story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2630.028,2635.692"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, some of us claim that we were. Because actually Emory gave the federal government the 15 acres for the center. But in order to make it legal, they had to have some transfer of money. And I can't recall now whether it was a dollar or $10. But apparently it was very difficult to get whatever sum it was needed from the federal treasury. So I don't know who thought of this. Maybe Jim Terrell thought of it. Just go around and make a voluntary collection. So May Melvin and I know contributed, I can't recall whether it was $0.10 towards a dollar or a dollar towards $10, but May has maintained that that contribution at least ought to be worth a reserve parking space at this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2635.692,2693.41"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e But the employees contributed the money to actually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2693.41,2696.17"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. And so that took care of the. The legal part of it. Of course, we claim to maybe the purchase of these acres. In 1946, we started giving the Emory medical school course, and it was a large course, and then those days, it was 60 hours of lectures and laboratories, and we went over more to put it on and gave all the lectures in the laboratories. And there's still some participation, but it's been cut down tremendously. But anyhow, some of us have felt maybe we paid Emory for the land by giving those courses for so many.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2696.17,2742.484"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Years prior to the occupancy of this building. Actually, you went with the World Health Organization to Central America, didn't you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2742.484,2750.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a team of malaria. Well, the WHO, the World Health Organization during that period of time, was in a malaria program worldwide. They thought that they could knock it out in ten years. It didn't succeed, but they had teams to go to various countries to evaluate the. Of the progress. So a group of us, four of us, Herb Shue, from the technical development branch, or whatever it was, down in Savannah, he was head of it, doctor shoof, and then Griff Quimby, who was a physician from some organ, maybe from epidemiology. And then, let's see one other herb shoo and then myself. I can't think of the fourth person at the present time, but we went from Costa Rica and to Guatemala, Nicaragua and El Salvador to look at the progress of the malaria eradication activities. I'd been down there earlier on an LSU fellowship in tropical medicine, and had about six weeks in Costa Rica and visited these other places. So it was helpful to have had those previous contacts. But that was an interesting assignment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2750.24,2842.58"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1962, you changed jobs to become the chief of the laboratory consultation and development section. Can you describe that function for us? Where were you located? Clifton Road. The first buildings were completed and occupied in 1960. We did not close out Chambly. We still kept things at Shambley. Were you at Chamblee, or were you here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2842.58,2867.808"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, we moved here in 1960.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2867.808,2871.488"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So you moved here, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2871.488,2873.064"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And maybe I should go back just a little bit. I think in 1957, when this microbiology section was organized at that time, we had a broad integrated program, as Justin Andrews would say, they were interdigitated activities, and we were concerned with all these things that you mentioned, training, reference, diagnosis, production of reagents, epidemic aid, and so on. The first thing it was pulled out of this broad program that was divided according to disciplines of parasitology, bacteriology, and so on, was the need to get greater emphasis on the production of biological diagnostic reagents. And so John Wynn headed up that activity. And then in 1962, in order to get greater emphasis on training and consultation in the more or less outreach of the laboratory program, this laboratory consultation development section was organized, and this was brought about by, at least, I'm not sure whether this was an act in Congress or what it was, but there was a line item for laboratory improvement program, national Laboratory improvement program, or effort, and it was supposed to have been an increasing appropriation during the next three years. I don't believe it ever increased, but at least it provided funds for us to concentrate on training and some of the laboratory improvement activities, because the laboratory program had had from the very beginning, as its probably main objective, was the improvement of what we call laboratory diagnostic medicine. And we were trying to do the state laboratories and through them to the laboratories at the local level. But in this 19 72 62 organization, to push this laboratory improvement effort that LC and D was organized, we wanted to call it, by the way, the laboratory improvement section. But we felt that that might not be accepted too much by some of the laboratories we wanted to improve.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=2873.064,3031.676"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You might not think they needed, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3031.676,3034.34"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And we felt that maybe they wouldn't mind being developed. But the implication that had to be improved was maybe a little hard to take. But at that time, we organized training units in the various disciplines, and these individuals were concerned completely with the offering of headquarters courses and field courses and extension services. We started on a continuing interrupted basis, the proficiency testing activities, sending out specimens as unknowns to the state public health laboratories. We started, we had done that in parasitology in about 1950 with the state laboratories to check on their ability to diagnose amnibiasis. But this at that time, though, in 1962, we were able to the proficiency testing on a regular prescribed basis. There was also a great deal of emphasis placed on the production of manuals and self instructional materials. And May Melvin and I worked with Robert Reynolds and the training division on program instruction. We developed one on amoebiasis that is still being used today. Bye. And particularly our field course activities. We also worked with Reynolds on the development of a very extensive one, malaria identification that was later taken over by a World Health Organization presumably used. And then there were manuals and other educational materials developed by this organization mainly concerned with getting the information out to the public.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3034.34,3144.212"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Was this consultation done as a team effort or were they individuals that went?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3144.212,3150.06"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e They were. It depended upon the problem. Actually, we did have, we were given at that time the responsibility for what we call the program reviews, and we would make up teams depending upon what was needed. If it was just a management. Another thing that was new that was added when we organized LC and D was establishment of a management consultation unit, and Jess Norman was the first chief of that. Jess became quite an authority on facilities planning and for several years he went out essentially alone to give consultation in regard to that. But it depended on how a lab should be designed. He designed the width of the laboratories, the width of doors, and he had quite a presentation of slides and so on that he could show basic things that needed to be considered. But he worked with architects and lab directors and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3150.06,3223.18"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I've heard Doctor Tiffany's name mentioned in connection with this review of state labs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3223.18,3228.98"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. He actually, as I mentioned earlier, he came about 1947 and I think in 1948 he started these program reviews of state laboratories, the state laboratories getting federal funds to undertake certain activities. And they were supposed to be reviewed practically every other year to determine that they were meeting those objectives as they should. Byrd in many instances went out by himself. He also went out later with Genevieve Stout, who came down from Staten island with a VD program, and Ed Harris. He also went out with Alan Donaldson, but he carried on that activity essentially by himself or with assistance of others for a number of years. He became ill. He actually had a stroke and retired, I think, in 1957 and died a few years later. It was a great loss to us because, well, professionally it was a great loss. And as a friend, and Burt had a great sense of humor and we missed him a great deal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3228.98,3308.462"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Was Wilton Fisher involved in any of those?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3308.462,3311.75"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, yes, he was assistant chief of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3311.75,3313.774"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Lab, I believe, at that time, and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3313.774,3315.134"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I can't recall exactly when will took part in some of these things, but he did go out on some of those program reviews, so on. He was a great big man that had a lot of energy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3315.134,3330.872"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, during the sixties you continued to have rather heavy involvement with overseas kinds of activities too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3330.872,3339.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Well, I was asked to either present papers or be the chairman of sessions or an officer in a number of international meetings, either in this country or in other countries. And I remember particularly meeting in Lisbon and in Brazil and in Tehran in Iran, the one in Lisbon. We reported on some work that had been done by May Melvin and George Healey and myself on the first staining of the malarial parasites with fluorescent antibody. Well, thinking of George Healey, if I could go back a minute. When May Melvin went off for her doctorate at Rice University and came back in about 1951, and she and I worked a great deal on some of the training activities, activities and manuals. And George Healey came, I believe, in 1957 or 58. And when he came, we started a correspondence course in parasitology, first with the public health service physicians that were out in various locations, and then it was offered to, to state public health laboratories. But it was a very extensive program that involved not only didactic material. And Malcolm Ferguson was in the editorial office at that time, and he used to complain about the thicknesses of those manuals that were sent to him to be corrected and so on. But that program had to be stopped. But it was fairly important at that time. I think May would like to be able to do it again if she had the facilities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3339.24,3468.528"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e What kind of work did you do in Iran?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3468.528,3473.04"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, at one of those international meetings, by the way, the one in Iran, the World Health Organization organized an expert committee on ambibiosis to be held just before this international meeting on tropical medicine and malaria. And I was asked to. Well, I was selected to the dubious honor of being the rapporteur for that expert committee meeting. And we met all week long, who at that time had the practice of requiring that the reports be written while the consultants were still available, which I think is probably a real good policy. But anyhow, Friday night, when my wife and daughter Martha were to arrive to be present during that international meeting, we were busy writing that report. They were to come in about 02:00. And Doctor Ansari, from who the only way he would let me go to meet them was to, he invited a car and a chauffeur. He said, will you go get them, deposit them in the hotel and come on back. So we worked all night to get that report finished, actually. Iran, I guess. Well, I was there on two other occasions after that. One was in 19, I guess it was 63. At the University of Tehran, doctor Mofidi had a big department of parasitology. It occupied a whole building, and he was concerned with the training of people in the malaria eradication program. And also he was engaged in research on various parasitic diseases all around in Iran. And we had a chance to visit these and Dez Ful and Abaddon and Shiraz and Isfahan and so on up to Caspian. He was toward the future, and he felt that just as CDC had started with emphasis on parasitology, he was wondering whether or not he ought to aim towards another CDC for Iran or a school of public health. And I was asked by USAID to go over and consult with him and the staff. In the spring of 63, Ed Najor was there. He was the. The malaria advisor to Iran. And later, as you know, he came.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3473.04,3641.568"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e To CDC with our foreign aid program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3641.568,3643.088"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. And in the international office of CDC. I went back in 19, about eleven years later, I guess, in 1974, and with a team from who this time not Usaiden. It was made up of Doctor Black from Australia and doctor Richter from Yugoslavia. And we then went back to the same department, essentially, but by that time it had become a school of public health. Doctor Mofidi had gone on become the chancellor of the university or something, but they, who was interested in setting up a master's program for physicians from developing nations, and they didn't want to select England or United States for that. They wanted it to be in a place where they still had a lot of problems but still had the facilities to put on a good training activity. So we essentially developed an 18 month training program that included six months of field work in one of these field stations around the country on a specific research problem, really modeled after the cooperative program that we had with the University of North Carolina. But that activity went on for several years, I understand, getting physicians from developing nations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3643.088,3740.626"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned the University of North Carolina and CDC's program. Could you tell us a little bit about it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3740.626,3746.204"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Well, that program started, I guess, back in the early sixties, and I think we have to give Ralph Hogan credit for thinking of the need for it. They knew at that time that very few of the state laboratory directors had doctoral degrees or training in research. Many of them were getting along in years and were probably going to retire in the future. So they thought of setting up a graduate program that would provide training and research and would end in a doctoral degree. It was found that the University of North Carolina was the institution that was interested in perhaps undertaking this effort, and it was primarily due to the interests of John Losch, who had been in a graduate school in Baltimore when Alan Donaldson and I were there. He had the interest, and because of being the school of public Health and reasonably close to CDC, made a nice arrangement. But basically the program was set up, whether you have academic courses at University of North Carolina for two years and the students would come to CDC between the first and second year and start on a research project under the supervision of a CDC scientist and then go back for the second year. They continued research and return to third year to, to complete it at CDC. At CDC, they had to take all of the examinations and so on as any doctoral person. So they would end with a DRPH doctor of public health and laboratory practice. The first graduating group was composed of all state laboratory directors. Al Klotch from Idaho, Ralph Williams from Alaska, Elma Spuria from Missouri, and Howard Barrick from university from Tennessee. Early. Well, they succeeded in getting a research training grant from NIS of h to put on that program, and it had a very unusual stipend arrangement. See, they were going after the people that were state laboratory director, and these individuals were long in years. I believe Al Klotz was 58 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3746.204,3908.266"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Old when he went into the program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3908.266,3910.482"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When he went into the program, and because they thought they were all going to fail being so old. But actually they gave the young fellows a run for the money because they really had an objective to reach. And also George Herman was in that first group. But now I think there are about 80 graduates of that program that have been in it come out since 1964. And I think of all programs I can think of, I think that has met the objective better than any other because the influence it's had is tremendous. The last time I counted these figures, 38 of the states had or had had individuals in important positions in the laboratory of the state public Health organization. From this program, there had been 25 of the states with state laboratory directives from it. And I think that currently I think there are 13 state lab directors from this particular program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3910.482,3982.46"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1969, you became the deputy chief of the licensure and development branch in New York laboratories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3982.46,3990.54"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And that was a branch that was developed in regard as in an effort to implement the Clear act, or whatever you want to call it. It was called the Clinical Laboratory Improvement act of 1967, and this required the federal government to license laboratories or engaged in interstate commerce getting specimens across state lines. So doctor, well, a physician, clinical chemist was the chief. Isomicrobiology was the deputy chief. The training and consultation activities of LC and D were put into that activity, but there were a number of things that were added. Greater effort was expended to the proficiency testing, the sending out of more specimens and more frequent specimens for the state laboratories to examined, and also for the interstate laboratories to examine. There was also a section, I guess, on it was called the examination and documentation Section. And Doctor John Forney, who had been in LC and D, was put in charge of that. And this group was made up of quite a number of experienced medical technologists like Jewell Mitchell and Betty Addison and Martha Mason and others. They had the responsibility of going into the interstate laboratories and surveying them to see that they had met the requirements for licensure. So that was essentially the activity of we had as our more or less legal advisor in the beginning, Doctor Arnold Hicks, who was a JD degree, he had been in the management consultation section of the LC and D and had made quite a study of state licensure activities. And he was a very practical lawyer. And I have a feeling in a way that perhaps we would have been more successful in the licensure activity, may have continued it longer if Arnie hadn't been removed from that consultative role as far as that effort was concerned. He, by the way, just retired about last. Well, no, he's on, I guess, sick leave at the present time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=3990.54,4157.35"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. The inference is that program is no longer at CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4157.35,4163.81"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That's essentially true. We've pretty well gotten out of it now. And the examination of the interstate laboratories are being done by the state agencies throughout the country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4163.81,4176.362"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And the federal responsibility was transferred to the health care financing administration. That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4176.362,4181.554"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e We do have association with them and serve as a consultative role. Do some of the training of the inspectors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4181.554,4193.029"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Three years after that you were appointed to your present position. Tell us about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4193.029,4199.957"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well, that was in 1972, I believe. And by the way, by that time I was a civil servant and I think, and this is of little interest in 19. Well, I became a civil servant in 1969 and more or less at the suggestion of doctor sensor, who was the chief of the center director. And prior to that time, in order to transfer from the commission corps to the civil service service, you had to have a break in service and a change in position. But Dave found out that NIS of H had been successful in accomplishing this without a break in service. So he asked me if I would like to try. And so we did succeed in getting that to take place. The position I was appointed to in 1972 was concerned with the problem of recognition of competence of people. And there was a lot of concern at that time with regard to how do you determine a person is competent and what is the role of certification and licensure and accreditation of training programs. So I was involved in those on a national level. Here at CDC, still directed the North Carolina program and also a postdoctoral program that had been started about the same time as the North Carolina program. Again, I think we should give Ralph Hogan credit for thinking of that. He realized that these facilities at CDC were really unusual and that they were a good, to have high level folks trained in medical and public health micro. So we organized this postdoctoral training program for physicians and for PhDs and other doctorate level people to come and work at CDC, really not work. They're essentially students to take the courses and work in the diagnostic laboratories, to have experience at Grady Memorial Laboratory and Emory University. And it's been a very rewarding relationship with these other institutions. And just about a year or two ago, we gave certificates from the American Academy of Microbiology to the leaders of those institutions that were cooperating with us. But that postdoctoral program, it's had, I guess, around five individuals to graduate from it. They have gone out and have in very important positions, either in state laboratories or medical centers, and 18 of them have successfully passed the federal, but not the federal, the American Board of Medical Microbiology diplomate examinations. So that activity can concern with the health manpower was concerned with a variety of things in the development of manpower for the laboratories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4199.957,4428.05"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think that postdoctoral program has had any influence on other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4428.05,4433.29"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I think it has, because. Well, I was, I guess, from around 1973 to the present time, I've had various and responsibilities associated with American Academy of Microbiology. And the CDC program, by the way, was the first program in the country to be accredited by this academy as meeting certain standards. And I was chairman of the Committee on postdoctoral educational programs that does the accrediting work for about six years, served as an ex officio member of the American Board of Medical Microbiology, and also represented the American Academy at the American Medical Association Committee on Allied Health Accreditation. So in one way or another had a number of connections to learn more about how a postdoc program like this should be arranged. And while I was chairman of the committee, the academy applied to the Office of Education to get recognized as a national accrediting agency, and we submitted a big, thick application to meet those requirements. In order to meet those requirements, we instituted a number of. Of changes here in our program. Here, the essentials were rewritten, we developed operational procedures, and so on. We also organized the subcommittee of the directors of 20 of these programs over the country. And through that means of communication, we were able to tell about some of the developments here at CDC. And I think to a great degree, this program at CDC is recognized as perhaps the best in the country and certainly a unique program. Unfortunately, we're not funding the stipends of these students. These graduate postdocs and this will probably, we have two that will be coming out of the program this year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4433.29,4583.27"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e During this period of time in the seventies, you were also a member of the departmental subcommittee on Health Manpower credentialing, too, weren't you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4583.27,4591.87"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. This was still concerning with this problem of how do you determine the adequacy of a person's training? And the department had become quite concerned over the fact that there were many new health professions being organized, and a lot of these would look at the physician and the lawyer, and they'd say, well, gosh, we've got to get licensed. And so there's a lot of activity to try to get licensure or licensed as a profession. This is a very expensive and time consuming effort to licensure people. It was the department actually, in a report, asked that there be a two year moratorium on any additional licensing of people or legislation. So they then, so that went on for four years. And in about 19, I guess, 75, this subcommittee on health manpower credentialing was organized, and we were to look at the issues and the policies and to make recommendations. And this was the final report in 1977. It was accepted by Doctor Richmond, and he urged that it be implemented. A number of the things that it proposed that there be a de emphasis on licensure, but if they were to license, then these are some things that should be done, and they were enumerated. They also recommended that a greater use of national examinations that were developed in the, and along the line of proficiency. One sec. At the moment, the name skips me, but anyhow, these were carefully developed examinations that were going to be used. They also recommended that rather than license people, that maybe some arrangement could be made where the certification that is being carried on by the private sector could be recognized by the federal government, advocated a national, non federal organization that would do this and that. Actually, following that period, there was and is a national commission for health certifying agencies established, and they've gotten into some financial difficulties, but that some of those recommendations are being implemented or trying to be implemented.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4591.87,4776.768"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Bill, you were in Zambia last year, weren't you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4776.768,4780.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, last fall, yes. This was Doctor Estienne, who is the, now the director of the laboratory program here at the center. She received a request from who? To have a couple of people go to Zambia to consult at the Tropical Disease Research center in Nadola. And Mister Harold Muir and I, he's a very competent medical technologist, went to Zambians, spent a month there. We got them started writing their procedural manuals, and we developed a guideline for the development of the establishment of a serum bank. Those were the two things that they wanted us to look at, the quality control, help them with quality control, and to help them with establishment of a serum bank. We reported, of course, to the director before we left, and we're now in the process of finally getting the written report ready to be sent to them. It's going to be quite a. It's going to have to be divided into three parts. It's so thick. But that assignment, professionally, it was interesting, but it wasn't a particularly enjoyable assignment because we just went to the laboratory work and went back to the hotel and stayed there. Had all of our meals in this one hotel. We were told not to go out at night because there's so much unrest, and we were also told not to take any pictures. So really, the only pictures that we took were those inside of the laboratory. And when we did go down to a field station at one of the game preserves, we took some pictures there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4780.24,4893.57"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Brooke, you've been with CDC long time, as we said earlier, probably as long as any other single individual. You came with MCWA a year before CDC was formed and have been with it ever since, probably as long as anybody. Is there a period of time in your career that you find particularly interesting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4893.57,4920.03"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think it would be, yeah, it would be kind of hard to really single out any. I have thoroughly enjoyed all of my activities and assignments here at CDC. Of course, in the very beginning, when we were trying to get that course organized, there was a lot of pleasure in getting it going. Also getting that the laboratory consultation development section was a big new activity that was enjoyable because some of the greatest joys, I guess, were in dealing with the graduate and postgraduate students in these two programs. That was very enjoyable. Of course, in a way, some person might look and say, gosh, you spent your whole life, career, and in one institution. But in essence, I look upon it as being fortunate and being in a large organization where you can do various things at different times and essentially have had about six major positions and a wide variety of activities and experiences. And I thoroughly enjoyed at all of it. I heard just this last week maybe a reason why maybe CDC is different, and maybe I shouldn't have had any concern about joining the feds. Maybe CDC is different. This teacher, in a course here that is an outside consultant that teaches a summer course in many places, he made reference to the fact that CDC is different, that it is the Harvard of the federal agencies, and on account of the quality of the staff here and the clientele that we deal with. And that's the reason it has been so enjoyable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=4920.03,5048.81"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have anything else you would like to say? Any advice to the people who are going to come out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5048.81,5054.746"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Any suggestions to management?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5054.746,5057.6"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I guess if you say anything that perhaps was not overly enjoyable, and that's because the administrative, the paperwork that has to go on in a big organization like this, it's just something you've got to recognize. It has to be done. No, I still think it's a fine place to work and I've enjoyed it all. I guess I'll probably retire within the next year, but I'll still be awfully interested in CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5057.6,5091.58"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Jim, do you have anything? Well, thank you so much. This has been delightful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5091.58,5096.588"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e You're certainly welcome. I'm sure I've left out a lot of things I would like to have said.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5096.588,5099.996"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, maybe we could have a second chance at this. Thank you so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5099.996,5127.51"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eD:\u003c/strong\u003e I appreciate this opportunity to add a note to the interview that Bill Watson and Jim Payne conducted a few weeks ago. On that occasion they were questioning me about the malaria evaluation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5127.51,5145.12"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Survey that was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5145.12,5146.4"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eD:\u003c/strong\u003e Being conducted in Central America and I drew a blank on naming the fourth person on that team. That fourth person is a good friend of mine, Bob. Bob Kaiser, Doctor Kaiser, one of the two physicians on that team. He is now the director of the Parasitic Diseases division of the center for Infectious Diseases here at CDC. In speaking of the staff and fellow associates, I intended to comment on the high regard that I have for the secretaries at CDC. I've been extremely blessed with good secretaries from the very first Pat Littlefield when we were down at Peachtree and Baker, 291 Peachtree, down to the present time when Misses Ruthen Lovejoy is doing my work. In the absence of Misses Crank, who is on leave, Miss Lovejoy does it in an extremely cheerful manner. Other secretaries that I've been associated with have gone on to bigger and greater responsibilities. Some of these are misses Sarah Brown, Misses Elise Rawls, Miss Betty Minor and of course, Misses Briscoe. I'd like to pay particular tribute to two secretaries that covered a 26 pan time, 26 years. Misses Velma Briscoe was with me for 13 years and Misses Susie Crankley has been my secretary for the last 13 years. Both of these individuals are extremely efficient. They're excellent and accurate typists, they're loyal and above all they have good public relations and they're just to have in the office.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5146.4,5290.43"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe during the interview I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5290.43,5292.942"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eD:\u003c/strong\u003e It stated that I entered the public health service as a senior assistant sanitarian which would be equivalent to a captain in the army. That was in 1945. In 1946, the public health Service decided to expand to the corps. And permit individuals with scientists with doctoral degrees to become regular corps members. It was by competitive examination. 30 of us took the examination that lasted for three days. And three of us were then later commissioned as senior assistant scientists. These were Don Iles, Harry Pratt, and myself. I'd like to add another note to the experience on the island of Koji do in career. Don Mackel, who is a CDC microbiologist now, at that time was with the state health department in Florida. And he spent several months in career. And he maintains that our hospital unit there served as the model for 4077 in the tv serial m a h. The reason for that is that our unit was the only unit in Korea. That had female nurses. When I was still in Korea, on the island of Koji do, I saw them building the ten foot brick or stone wall around the Quonset hut where the nurses were going to stay. I've always assured my wife that hot lips and the rest of the nurses did not arrive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5292.942,5410.63"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Before I left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5410.63,5415.07"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eD:\u003c/strong\u003e I mentioned about Morris Goldman being the individual that introduced fluorescent antibody technique to CDC. And I'd just like to add that I think that that represents an extremely valuable payoff. For long term career training of our staff that show ability and commitment. Because he certainly contributed a great deal. In bringing the fluorescent antibody technique to CDC. When he did his work for doctorate at Johns Hopkins. There are probably a number of other things I should add. It's kind of interesting in a way. I have this lab coat on now because I'm working in one of the courses that is a spin off of the course that we started with in 1945. And shortly I'll give the last lecture as a full time employee of CDC in this course. Doctor Melvin is the director of the course. And she will still remain at CDC for some indefinite period. But it has been an extremely interesting and valuable career to me to be here at CDC for these more or less 40 years. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5415.07,5507.61"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e It. It. It.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432#t=5507.61,5509.11"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132653/file/247432/transcript/68946/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/946/original/transcript_1765554509.vtt20251212-2593616-cvzqbo.vtt20251212-2593616-cvzqbo?1765554509","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/946/original/transcript_1765554509.vtt20251212-2593616-cvzqbo.vtt20251212-2593616-cvzqbo?1765554509"}]}]}]}