{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/6h4cn70h76/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Cherry, William B. ' 1982"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1982"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Bill Cherry, retired Scientific Director of United States Public Health Service, talks of the many projects and people with whom he worked during his years at CDC. Interviewed by James G. Paine"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Dr. Bill Cherry, retired Scientific Director of United States Public Health Service, talks of the many projects and people with whom he worked during his years at CDC. Interviewed by James G. Paine"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/433/small/1722773321_1982_Cherry_William_B_faststart_1722773328.jpg?1722758929","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 1982_Cherry_William_B_faststart.mp4"]},"duration":3245.012,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/433/small/1722773321_1982_Cherry_William_B_faststart_1722773328.jpg?1722758929","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-globalhealthchronicles.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/247/433/original/1982_Cherry_William_B_faststart.mp4?1722773292","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3245.012,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["[AssemblyAI Transcript] 1982 Cherry, William B. [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e We're talking this morning with Doctor William Bailey Cherry, whose career in the public health service in CDC and in the Bureau of Labs some 30 years. Good morning, Doctor Cherry, how are you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=24.68,34.828"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Good morning, Jim. Good to see you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=34.828,36.498"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe you joined CDC in 1951. In 51. Was that as a commission to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=36.498,42.802"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I saw civil service, yes. Actually, I had been teaching at the University of Tennessee just prior to coming to CDC. And I was supposed to come down as a civil servant. But in the meantime, before I actually reported for duty, they discovered that I had a commission in the US Naval Reserve and suggested I transfer it to us public health service, which I did. So I came on duty, actually as a us public health service officer. Sort of interesting introduction to CDC was when I came down for my physical examination. There was no clinic at the center at that time, so we were sent out to the federal prison. So my introduction to public health service, Washington physical examination at the Atlanta federal prison.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=42.802,88.858"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e That was an interesting concept. And as you say, that was in 51.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=88.858,92.858"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e This was in 51.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=92.858,94.138"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And your first assignment in CDC was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=94.138,96.202"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e My first assignment was with Doctor P. R. Edwards in the enterobacteriology laboratory at Chandley. Doctor Edwards was a friend of mine, a man with whom I had worked previously before the war in Kentucky. And the primary reason really that I came to CDC was because he offered me a position here in his enteric bacteriology laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=96.202,120.89"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Phil Edwards was quite an authority, I believe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=120.89,124.546"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, he was. He was an international authority on salmonella and other enteric bacteria, but especially on salmonella. And it was really an opportunity to be able to work with him again after my initial experience in working with him at the University of Kentucky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=124.546,140.258"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And where were the laboratories housed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=140.258,142.004"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e The laboratories were housed at Chambly. The administrative officers were downtown, the 7th and peach Tree building. And I guess my first impressions of CDC were that the people are great, but the facilities are really pretty terrible because we were being housed at Chambly in the old world War. Two leftover buildings, some of which were being used by the Veterans Administration at that time, the rest being used by CDC. The buildings had been put up hurriedly in 1940, I believe, and were still standing. That was just about all. They were in bad repair in many cases. They were certainly not airtight. And we had laminar flow through the buildings in the wintertime and sweated it out in the summertime with no air conditioning. There were very few offices that, no laboratories or very few offices that had any air conditioning. So it was the conditions under which we worked at that time couldn't be imagined by some of the people at CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=142.004,208.186"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Now I guess you'd say that there's quite a disparity or quite of a difference in the facilities then and now. You couldn't compare them really, could you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=208.186,218.274"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I remember on one or more than one occasion in the wintertime the pipes would break and once we came in the morning, pipes had broken. Water had run all over the floor of the laboratory and frozen during the night. So if we'd had ice skates we could have had a recreational break in the laboratory. Perhaps it would stimulate us to move faster in our work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=218.274,245.48"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e What type of work were you doing in 19? 51? 52. Error? Doctor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=245.48,250.36"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When I came with Doctor Edwards I was helping him and Elizabeth, excuse me, Virginia Wilson in the phage laboratory. This was typhoid phage typing laboratory, also a laboratory for typing other salmonellas. And I was working with other phages for enteric organisms at this time. Doctor Hogan was chief of the laboratory services. Doctor Frobisher was chief of the bacteriology section, I believe that's what it was called at that time. Doctor Frobisher was a distinguished microbiologist from Johns Hopkins that had come to CDC but only stayed here a couple of years, from about 1950 to 52, I believe, or 51 to 53, I'm not sure exact date. Then he went to the University of Georgia to start a department of bacteriology over there. Doctor Frobisher had brought with him from Johns Hopkins University several people who became well known in CDC. Doctor Updike, Doctor Elaine Updike, Doctor Elizabeth Parsons, who was an expert on diphtheria as well as Doctor frobisher. Doctor Martha Ward came down later and established or headed up a laboratory in which she had been with the army.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=250.36,332.868"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Hadn'T she, Doctor Ward?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=332.868,334.952"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure about that, Jim, but she started the laboratory in which Miss Betty King worked and in which where the emphasis was on the identification of unusual organisms that were causing infection in man and animals. Doctor Joseph Schubert was here at that time as head of the serology laboratory. Of course, there was a parasitology group under Doctor Brooke. There was the mycology group with Doctor Yellow and Doctor Lucille George, Doctor Gordon and Doctor Gordon, later Doctor Kaplan. So the microbiology at the center was quite well underway by the time I came in 1951. Many of the people who headed up the various facets of microbiology had come down about 1948 after CDC was really turned into something more than malaria control and war areas beginning about 1946.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=334.952,400.888"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And you were then made chief of the diagnostic unit in 53 yes, this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=400.888,406.552"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Came about in an interesting way, I guess. I actually didn't work with Doctor Edwards for more than about a year or a little over, because about this time Doctor Hogan received a contract from Fort Detrick for doing rapid research on rapid identification of organisms of potential bacteriological warfare importance or biological warfare importance, because it not only included bacteria but also fungi and viruses and maybe some protozoa even he had no one assigned to work on this project and it was necessary to get it underway rapidly. So since I was a new employee, he suggested to me that I work on this project. And actually what we started to do at the beginning was to use bacteriophages for rapid detection of organisms in environmental and clinical specimens. So I became involved in this contract work with Fort Detrick. Very soon after I came with Doctor Edwards, then Doctor Tiffany was put in, excuse me, Doctor Burt Tiffany was put in charge of the diagnostic laboratory and they asked me to serve as his assistant. This was a laboratory in which Doctor George Herman was working. Miss Elizabeth King. Doctor Ward had moved on to something else then, I don't remember just what. And I worked with Doctor Tiffany as well as doing some work on the BW contract for a year or more, after which he suffered a stroke. And I took over the laboratory for a short period of time and in 1955 was transferred down to building 22, as it was called then at Chambly to head up the effort that was being made overall on the Dietrich contract. That was a laboratory been set up specially for the dietrich contract work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=406.552,541.95"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Don't I recall some interesting stories about balloons and the naval air station and so forth? Yeah, well, having to report before we sent up the Venturi scrubbers, having to check to see if there were flights out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=541.95,557.02"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e They were interested in finding out something about aerobiology, was fairly new then as compared to now. And we were interested in finding out something about dissemination of viruses. Bye. Venturi scrubber. So from somewhere they obtained a truck, a large industrial type venturi scrubber, which the whole thing came with engineer to operate it. And it was set up in a field out near the buildings in Chambly. And we disseminated from the Venturi scrubber cholera bacteriophage, of all things. We were working with cholera. We had a very lytic bacteriophage for vibrio cholera, and we disseminated that it was killed, of course, through the Venturi scrubber and then tried to detect it. It was killed. As far as having any viable cholera organisms, the phage was still active. We ended up with a shelf of carboids of the liquid in which the phage was collected on the shelf in the laboratory. And then we didn't know what to do with it. We had thought we could filter it, but we found that it was so turbid that it was impossible to filter it. So we had to take aliquots of it and determine how much phage we had present. And eventually we did find out something about the dissemination of a simulant for a virus, namely a bacteria phage in that way. Then there was, while we were working with bacteriophage, there was another incident that occurred. One of the people in Doctor Edwards laboratory, I believe, was dipping a bucket in a manhole to obtain sewage there on the chambly compound. And the bucket just happened to be the right size to be sucked into the sewage pipe and completely the lower end of the bucket, the bottom of the bucket being smaller than the top, the smaller end went into the pipe, the larger end could not go in. So it completely blocked the pipe. And as a result we had the county out there and we were hip deep in sewage over a large portion of the chamber reservation. And this is interesting to me because I had been dipping sewage out of the same manhole looking for bacteriophage. And I almost had the same. I came very near doing the same thing that was later done by somebody else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=557.02,718.26"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember that was quite a problem. CDC and for the county too. Was the fluorescent antibody work started during this period or was that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=718.26,727.388"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, the fluorescent antibody work was actually started by Doctor Max Moody. About 1954. Doctor Moody and Doctor Gordon, Morris Gordon had been in charge of the laboratory. Doctor Gordon was the first person in charge of that laboratory in building 22, which was the BW defense Laboratory. And then he left and Doctor Moody took over about 54. In 1955, I was sent down to take over. At that time they had already done some work with Fresno antibody using the organism that causes malleoidosis, which is pseudomonas, pseudomalia. Actually that was the first work that was published dealing with a diagnostic use of the frescent antibody technique. And later on, years later, when we had Doctor Koons who actually devised and discovered and developed the fluorescent antibody technique at Harvard, we had him come down to give a lecture to our class in forest antibody techniques. And he was really astonished at how much we had done in the application of Forrest and antibody techniques to diagnostic purposes because his use of it had been in experimental pathology and primarily on a completely research basis rather than an applied basis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=727.388,815.97"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Was this also the era of chromatography.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=815.97,819.97"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, that came long later. If you're speaking about gas liquid chromatography, that came along about 1965, actually, which is considerably later. Most of what we did in building 22 in Chamley had to do with applications of forest techniques to detection of various bacteria in environmental specimens, clinical specimens, and so on. Now, there were a lot of other approaches that were used. Antibody containing media, trying to devise selective media for culturing pathogens from contaminated samples, some other approaches, none of which turned out to be very prominent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=819.97,866.428"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And roughly, this covered about a ten year period, though, from 55 to 65 somewhere along.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=866.428,871.044"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. Deforescent antibody applications continued after 65. But it's true that about 1965 we started to develop a new area, which was an area, a biochemistry area, actually, and that the main item in that development was the use of gas liquid chromatography for detection of bacterial products and better characterization of bacteria. But I remember one humorous incident that occurred while we were in building 22 at Chamley involved Misses Thomason, Miss Bernice Thomason and myself. We had a little animal room there that wasn't big enough to whip a cat in, but we had some rabbits and mice in the room. Doctor Tiffany had. Doctor Tiffany was in charge of the training at that time. And he had to go out of town. And he had asked me to bleed some rats that he had injected with a borrelia. Borrelia recurrentis that he wanted to use for demonstration of class when he returned. And he told me where the rats were and what to do. And I got Miss Thomason to help me. And neither one of us had worked with rats before. We went into this little room and got out the rats I had on some heavy gloves, but not knowing very much about rats or how to hold them, she was supposed to clip off the end of the rat's tail, and we would get blood and make smears. So she clipped off the end of the tail and didn't get any blood. So I told her to clip a little more. And about this time, the rat turned around and got me by the finger and even through the glove, and I flung him off. And not knowing where he went, the next thing I knew, I thought the rat was on the back of my neck. Something was scratching and grabbing the back of my neck. Well, it turned out that Miss Thomason was screaming at the top of her voice because she was very frightened of rats. Anyway, turned out that she was trying to climb up on the cage, which was just back of me, and she was using my neck to help pull herself up on the cage. I didn't know where the rat was. And finally we got calmed down a little bit and there was a little window about a foot square that looked from the laboratory into the animal room. And we looked over there and there were about six faces trying to peer into this little room to see what was causing all the screaming and the taking on. We had some interesting experiences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=871.044,1029.56"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let's see then. Your next assignment was the chief of the bacteriology section, I guess in 1966.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1029.56,1036.209"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Edwards died in May 1966 and Doctor Koko asked me. Doctor Koko was chief of the laboratory branch, asked me to take over, at least temporarily, which I did. This turned out to be about a year and a half's assignment. I still had my duties as chief of the immunofluorescence or bacterial chemistry unit, I guess it was called at that time, and did what I could to try to run the bacteriology section. At the end of that time, Doctor Douglas, I believe, came back over that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1036.209,1082.082"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Position and you went back as chief of the bacterial chemistry full time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1082.082,1087.082"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Previous job? Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1087.082,1088.342"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And that was until about 1975, maybe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1088.342,1094.11"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e 76. 75, 76.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1094.11,1096.966"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. And then the immunochemistry, immunofluorescent section, were you, you were chief of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1096.966,1107.494"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, about. About 1970. About 1976 I asked to be relieved of my duties as chief of the bacterial chemistry group because I wanted to. I knew I was not very far from retirement and I wanted an opportunity to get back in the laboratory and do something that was more fun than shoveling papers. So I was allowed to step down from being chief of that group to just being the immunoporescence section. And then two or three years after that, I was relieved of that responsibility. So the last three or four years that I was at CDC, I was just working in the laboratory with one assistant. I had responsibilities for operating the section or the branch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1107.494,1161.166"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Excuse me. You did a good bit of training during this period, didn't you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1161.166,1163.83"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, we always did a lot of training. Of course, most of people and laboratories of CDC do have considerable training responsibilities. And we, in the early days, we organized courses in civil defense against BW. We brought in laboratory directors, all the state laboratory directors that were here at one time or another. We had special laboratories set up in building 22 with home built bacterological safety cabinets, which when I look back on them now, certainly weren't very safe. But fortunately we got away with it. We actually trained laboratory directors and their designates in handling the most pathogenic bacteria. We felt that if we're going to do this, we ought to use the real thing, and we shouldn't use simulants. So we used plague and two rhemia and anthrax and all these things right in the laboratory and had these people work with them. And then, of course, Doctor Moody and I organized courses in fluorescent antibody technique. And we gave these along with a team which consisted of doctor Gilda Jones and Miss Betty Wilson, who's no longer at CDC. They were our training team with primary responsibility for getting the laboratory set up and doing the extramural training. And looking back on this, I don't really know how they did it or how we did it, because we had about 20 fluorescent microscopes with the necessary and equipment to operate the microscopes to do fluorescent antibody work. And we had packing cases, enormous packing cases, to take each one of these. These packing cases were shipped all over the country. It was a very expensive proposition. But at that time, people in state labs and hospitals didn't have fluorescent antibody, didn't have fluorescence equipment. They wanted to do the work. They wanted to initiate the work, but they had no equipment. So the only thing that you could do if you couldn't bring them here was to take them out, take the equipment in the field and train them there. And this was done for several years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1163.83,1297.1"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And this was primarily a lack of know how and a lack of money with the state health departments to handle that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1297.1,1304.466"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. They didn't have the money to invest in the equipment at that time, at least until they could see that it would. What it would do for them. And they didn't have the people who were trained to do the work. So this was, of course, this was initiated before improvement program, in which the training section was set up to handle this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1304.466,1326.714"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Separate from the specialty units, each unit did its own.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1326.714,1330.788"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Each unit did its own training. In those early days, mycology was responsible for all their training. Enteric bacteriology laboratory was responsible for all of its training. Instead of having a specific set apart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1330.788,1346.004"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Training group progressing on a little bit in your history here, I believe you were involved in the Legionnaires disease work, or allegianosis is its colony, I guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1346.004,1356.894"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I look back now to the Pontiac outbreak in 1968 on which many people at CDC worked and which we missed the boat, I'm sure, as far as determining the cause of legionary's disease. Now, there were many reasons for this, of course. It was a mild outbreak. There was not too much on the part of the people who got sick during this outbreak. That is serologic response. So you didn't have a lot to go on in that respect, but I'm sure that we saw the organisms in egg yolk sacks at that time, because I specifically remember Doctor Coonrod, who's now, I believe, at the University of Kentucky, was a court officer with doctor Charles Sheppard, and they had put some of the material from the patients in the Pontiac outbreak into egg yolk sacs, into embryos, and had harvested egg yolk sacks. And they brought us some smears of this material and asked us to stain it with, by the indirect fluorescent antibody technique, using some serum from some of the patients. And we saw some organisms. I looked back through my notes not long ago, and I noted that we had seen some organisms looked like bacteria at that time, but not knowing what the material was exactly that went into the eggs or how it was handled and so on, it was so indefinite that no one would have wanted to make a statement that they had found the cause of the disease. Then moving on to 1976, when Doctor Frazier and his group and doctor McDade discovered the cause of legionella, of legionnaires disease, which would be Legionella. This was an interesting time, and as far as my part is concerned, it's the most interesting thing that I, in my entire 30 years at CDC, the work with Legionelle has been the most interesting thing that I've been involved in. Some of the other things have been interesting and they've had importance and a lot of ramifications. But as far as just being able to work with a completely new organism, that's something that most bacteriologists don't have the opportunity to do, at least to work with an important new organism. Most of the important bacteria presumably have been discovered. It's not true with viruses. It is still discovering important viruses every year, many of them. But the legionella work was interesting, and our part in it, in my laboratory, was producing reagents for us and antibody reagents against the organism to be used in rapid detection, identification of the organisms in tissue screening, environmental specimens and all this sort of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1356.894,1546.82"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Cherry, I'm aware that you have won the DhEw Meritorial Service Medal in 63, and the, excuse me, the Kimball Research Award in 67, the PR Edwards award in 68, Corps award in 74, and the Distinct Public Health Service Distinguished Service Medal in 77, which is quite a. Quite an array of awards for any individual. And I hear there's another one to add to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1546.82,1573.94"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I was lucky enough to be selected for the Beckton Dickinson Award, which is given in clinical microbiology by the American Society of Microbiology this past spring at the meeting in Atlanta. So I've been very lucky. I really have. CDC has been extremely good to me. It's been a great place to work, and my experiences here in 30 odd years just couldn't be matched anywhere else. I don't think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1573.94,1603.426"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think luck has had a great deal to do with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1603.426,1605.674"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Cherry, being in the right place at the right time is very important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1605.674,1611.37"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Can you think of any highlights of meetings that you attended, footnotes that might be footnotes to our history you'd want to bring up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1611.37,1623.82"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I guess, you know, the most interesting thing that experiences I've had. I've attended about four of the international meetings on immunofluorescence. One in London, one in Leiden and Holland, one in Stockholm. And it seems there was another one. Anyway, these experiences in meeting with people who are doing similar work from all over the world at these immunofluorescence meetings, which involved, of course, the use of immunofluorescence techniques in all areas of biology, in research and applications with all types of types of organisms, and cancer research and everything. This has been a very stimulating experience in terms of the people that you meet, and you get to know those people that are writing textbooks and writing papers and that you corresponded with, but haven't seen face to face before. And the opportunity for some international travel, or just travel to meetings, participating in meetings is extremely important, I think. And sometimes many of us have had the feeling that administration of CDC often does not attach appropriate importance to its scientists attending meetings, scientific meetings. This is terribly stimulating. It's where you get ideas, it's where you meet people, make contacts that help you further your work. And it's the money that is spent for sending people to meetings is always well spent, in my view.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1623.82,1729.61"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e When you were doing diagnostic work, it seemed like to me there was a study made about the packaging of materials for shipment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1729.61,1737.37"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, excuse me, that really didn't. Wasn't from our laboratory, but Doctor John Wynn, who many people at CDC remember, was in charge of biologic products branch, or whatever it was called at that time at CDC. And because of the fact that this group was shipping so many biologicals, cultures, pathogenic organisms and other things, serums and breast and antibody conjugates and virus specimens and so on all over the world, he's very interested in finding out whether the packaging that they were using was sufficient to withstand the usual airline handling or post office handling. So he fixed up some packages, much as he would if he were sending them for real. And got the aviators, I guess, at the naval air station to drop them out of an airplane flying over the field near Chambly and studied the effect of the drop on the packaging that they were using to presumably make these biological safe to ship. I think it worked out very well, actually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1737.37,1814.288"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e This came out of the post office's concern, I believe, for the safety of handling some of these materials. I guess basically Doctor McLyman's some studies he did, perhaps.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1814.288,1827.32"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. There was a gentleman at CDC for a while, I don't remember, three or four years, perhaps, by the name of William McLymans, PhD. I knew Bill McClymons when I was in the Navy. He was working on Rickettsia at the Naval Research Laboratory in Bethesda when I was in naval medical school there. And Bill came to CDC and one of the things that he was doing was working with insecthood, tissue culture. Insect tissue culture. This was a fairly new thing at that time. And he had a lot of insect tissue cultures going in his laboratory. And we had a public health service sanitarian whose job it was at CDC to spread pesticides and get rid of the varmints around the laboratories. We had plenty of roaches and other varmints. And this fellow's job was to go around and do the necessary decontamination. And I guess Bill McLymons had told him, you know, don't do this in my laboratory. Well, the fellow forgot, apparently. And one day when McLymons was not there, he went in and sprayed chlordane or DDT or something all around the room. Result of that was he killed McLiman's insect pathogen, insect tissue cultures. And Bill McClymons was a very. He had a short fuse and a very aggressive guy. And he got ahold of this fella and stood him up against the wall and stuck his fist in his face and told him if he ever came in his laboratory again, he'd kill him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1827.32,1938.57"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You have. That's an interesting anecdote. You have had quite a number of contemporaries that you work with that I think may have influenced your career and perhaps influenced the career of the. Not the career, but the notoriety and certainly the influence of CDC. And I'd like to mention some names and have you react to them, if I may. Pr. Edwards, Doctor Phil Edwards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1938.57,1963.86"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Phil Edwards was nearer to. Well, he was something between a father and a big brother to me because my father died when I was six years old and P. R. Edwards was my scientific mentor and friend. And as I sort of something between a father and big brother and a wonderful microbiologist and man I admired tremendously. And when he died in 1966, it was really an emotional blow to me. Doctor WilLIAm EwIng, Bill Ewing, of course, I got to know him as soon as I arrived at CDC because he was working with Doctor Edwards and Doctor Ewing was in charge of the Shigella and the E. Coli work in the enteric laboratory. Extremely competent microbiologist who's still active in the field, although he's been retired for a number of years now, is a consultant to one of the firms that makes diagnostic kits, particularly for identification of enterobacteria, excuse me, identification of enteric bacteria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=1963.86,2035.48"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Ralph B. Hogan, who was a former chief of the Bureau of Labs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2035.48,2038.896"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e As it was called. Doctor Hogan, of course, was chief when I first came to CDC and for several years thereafter, actually probably had more to do with my coming into the regular core of the public health service than anyone, because I wasn't sure when I came to CDC that I would stay here. I still like academic work, although I didn't like the teaching load at the University of Tennessee where I'd been before. But. So I was in the reserve, of course, as a commissioned officer for the first several years. But Doctor Hogan persuaded me to take the examination. At that time. You had to take an all day core examination and an interview to get into the regular core. And he persuaded me to do that, which was a very fortunate thing that he did because it turned out to be a very good thing for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2038.896,2092.056"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor EJ Burt Tiffany.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2092.056,2094.376"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Tiffany was head of training, as I mentioned before, before at CDC, when I first came. And many people at CDC, of course, know his wife Margo, who retired not very long ago from working in the cafeteria at CDC. Doctor Tiffany was a very good friend of Doctor Edwards. They were in school at the same time at Yale University. Doctor Tiffany was in medical school. And of course, Doctor Edwards, PhD at Yale. And I remember that one of the first things Doctor Tiffany said to me when I met him was he said, phil EdwardS sure is glad that you're here. Which was really nice to hear, because I knew that Doctor Edwards had been hoping to get somebody else in his laboratory to take up some of the slack. But Doctor Tiffany was a man that everybody liked, jovial, pleasant, easy to work with, a really nice man, Doctor upinti Coco. Doctor Koko is a very good friend. Ours. He was chief of the laboratory bureau, I guess, finally. Very good chief, as far as I'm concerned. Very understanding, appreciated research, gave us good support for what we're trying to do. Excellent support.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2094.376,2183.838"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e William B. Hagens is administrative officer for the Bureau of Labs for some 20 or 30 years, I guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2183.838,2189.03"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, Jim, you know, you and I were talking about Bill Hagans before we started this taping. Bill Hagans was a very unusual man. I think he had a very difficult job. He had responsibilities that were as wide as the bureau. He was a man who, if something needed doing, he would do it, didn't matter what it was. If it was some need to crawl under, reach under a refrigerator and take care of some problem of leakage, he was down the floor doing it. His door was always open. We could always go and talk to him. He didn't always agree with him. In fact, at times I buried him out in my garden when I went home, as I did have a lot of administrators. But overall Bill was a very reasonable fellow who did the best he could and certainly supported some vacuums that existed, I thought, within the laboratory branch where things would not have gotten done if he hadn't been able to step in or willing to step in and do them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2189.03,2256.11"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e ALAN W. Donaldson actually ended up as the assistant director of CDC, worked with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2256.11,2261.388"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Lab for a number of years, and later went to Washington and was assistant surgeon general in the department. Alan Donaldson, of course, was a parasitologist who came down, I believe, with the original malaria control war areas group that came down to Georgia in 1942 or 43 when there was a tremendous problem with malaria among the troops, Benning and Gordon and so on. And that nucleus of Doctor Donaldson and Brooke. And I guess Harry Pratt may have been in that group, and Mae Malvin, I don't know if she may have been in later. Anyway, that group was the nucleus for the formation of CDC and expansions of that group into CDC, which began in 1946. Alan was a well liked person that was a good leader for the laboratories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2261.388,2322.94"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And he actually, he and Marion Brooke actually worked together. And Marion is another name that you have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2322.94,2327.868"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Marion Brooke, one of the first people I met when I came to CDC. He was in charge of parasitology laboratories and later he was in charge of a combination of parasitology and my bacteriology for a period of time. Then they were separated again and he went back to his parasitology position. Marion Brooke is, of course, still at CDC, very active and never looks a day older, it seems to me, very likeable fellow and very efficient in his job. Marsh Goldmand, Morris Goleman worked with doctor Brooke and Morris Goleman, I think we should give him credit that he deserves. He was the first person to use fluorescent antibody techniques at the center. And this resulted from his being on educational leave at Johns Hopkins. And during that time, he had some communication, visited Doctor Kuhn's laboratory at Harvard and learned how to do the fluorescence antibody technique, learned how to label and whatnot. When he came back to CDC, they got the equipment. And the first work that was done at CDC with fluorescent antibody was by Doctor Goldman, I think possibly on amoeba, but also toxoplasma. Work came in there very close to that. Doctor Goldman was commissioned officer, who retired, went to National Institutes of Health for a period of time, then worked for bionetics, a commercial firm in Maryland or New Jersey. I'm not one of those places. And eventually immigrated to Israel, where he now lives with his family. He works in the Camron Veterinary Institute in Israel now, but is about to retire from that job and become a. An archaeologist. He's studying archaeology now. He was here last summer. So I'm pretty much up to date on what he's doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2327.868,2449.102"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Mildred Galton.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2449.102,2450.47"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Mildred Galton came to CDC into the epidemiology group to head up the enteric laboratory and the Leptospira laboratory in the enteric group in the epidemiology program. She came from Florida State Laboratory. Mildred was a very productive person, well liked by people she worked with in the field and at CDC. And it was a great loss when she died.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2450.47,2482.28"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Ari von der Leil.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2482.28,2484.84"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Vondelier is a man that I remember with a great deal of unpleasantness because he was what all chiefs of CDC should be. I understand why present chiefs of CDC cannot go around and visit laboratories very often. Every Friday afternoon, Doctor Vondelier was located, of course, downtown, 7th and Peachtree building. But every Friday afternoon, he made the pilgrimage to Chambly. And he stuck his head, excuse me. He stuck his head in every laboratory, said, hello, how are you? What do you need today? This sort of pleasantness. And people really do not understand what a morale builder this kind of contact with the chief is for the people who are doing the work in the laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2484.84,2536.13"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e George Cannell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2536.13,2538.25"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e George Cannell was the safety officer at Pine Bluff during the days when the BW stockpile was being built there. Of course, before the destruction of the BW stockpile, which Nixon ordered in 1960 73, I guess. Anyway, George came to CDC from Pine Bluff and was assistant to doctor Martin. He was assistant to the bacteriology section chief at that time for a period of time. And then some years later, he was given the responsibility in the office of the chief of the center of heading up the research grants program. In fact, I talked to doctor, I was asked because I was going to an ASM meeting to talk to Doctor Connell about coming to CDC. I guess I made one of the first personal contacts with him about coming here before he decided to come.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2538.25,2606.954"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You've already mentioned Doctor Yellow and Doctor George in your comments about. So how about Doctor Kagan?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2606.954,2615.81"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Kagan, of course, has been for many years chief of the parasitology group and has somewhat different position now. But he's still chief of parasitology, one of the most productive people at CDC. I think he's written close to 300 papers now, something like that, which is an enormous amount of research and tremendous productive individual who's recognized internationally for his work in the field of parasitology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2615.81,2648.522"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Any other personalities that come to your mind that you might like to comment on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2648.522,2654.35"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yes, I would like to mention Doctor Goddard as a former chief of CDC because he was, you know, from my perspective, which is one of the Indians way down the line, he was extremely good in personal relations. Now I don't know how he was with his immediate staff, but I know from two or three experiences that he was extremely good at recognizing people who did things for him that he wanted done. I mean he'd never fail to thank you if you did a job for him, no matter how inconvenient it was or anything else. He would write you a note or he would call you. And this is a very good characteristic again for an organization to have. It takes a little time, but it's really worth it, I think, in retrospect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2654.35,2709.642"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Cherry, would you like to comment on your 30 years at the center and about the future of the center?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2709.642,2717.85"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I would, Jim, but if you don't mind, let me mention one other person I don't think we should forget, and that is Dave Sensor, who was for ten or eleven years chief of the center. And I think Dave sensor gave more of himself probably to the center than anyone else that I aware of who has been chief of this center. He was certainly dedicated to CDC and I felt very badly about the swine influenza thing because I think he was made a scapegoat by the political ramifications of this thing and treated very very badly. No one could have made greater contributions in terms of his dedication to the senator than Dave senter in my opinion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2717.85,2769.29"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e He certainly was a dedicated chief of CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2769.29,2772.97"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Now you were asking me something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2772.97,2775.186"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I said in retrospect, would you like to comment on your 30 years of service and perhaps about the future of CDC?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2775.186,2783.37"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I suppose it's characteristic of those of us who are older and retired or near retirement and so on, to think that things were better in the old days than they are at the present time. But I do feel that probably partly because the organization was small in the days when I came to CDC and when you came, Jim. And it's always easier to have personal relationships and better knowledge of what's going on. If the organization is small, when it gets to be too large, it happens. It becomes institutionalized. People at the working level frequently don't know what's going on or what they're supposed to be doing or why they're supposed to be doing it. They don't have the, the tie in to the mission of the organization as they do when the organization is smaller and there's more communication between the top and the middle and lower echelons. I mentioned before that CDC has been very good to me. I can't think of any place that I would rather have worked. And as I mentioned also when I first came here, I wasn't sure at all that I would. I thought I might go back into academia, but when I became involved in what CDC is doing and the service that they're rendering, I couldn't be a better place to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2783.37,2877.928"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e It's very habit form.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2877.928,2879.256"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Very habit form, yes, a 30 year habit, I guess. I feel that the thing that's happening to CDC now is that there's less emphasis on service. And I believe that to be unfortunate. In the earlier days and until fairly recent times, CDC felt itself to have a real mission in helping train people in other laboratories, state hospital and whatnot, in doing diagnostic work for them in areas where they couldn't do it for themselves or didn't have the training to do it for themselves. This kind of service seems to me, is not being emphasized now nearly as much as it was in the past. I understand the concept of preventive medicine. I think that we, preventive medicine is the best kind of medicine, but you can't have preventive medicine without knowing what you're preventing. So there has to be a background of diagnostic work and service and training in order for people to understand what it is that they're trying to prevent or to have the tools and the information attack the diseases that they're trying to prevent. So I think, you know, this is something that concerns me a little bit about CDC, is what I see as a lack of a decreasing emphasis on service of that kind. From a purely, I can't help getting in this, this blow because even though I'm not involved in it anymore, I was peripherally involved in it. I think that the best thing that could happen for morale at CDC would be to deep six the merit pay and job appraisal portions of the Civil Service Reform Act. I think this has really upset people at CDC. I don't see it as accomplished anything except to put a lot of people in competition with each other in very unhealthy ways. And the hasn't worked in the beginning now maybe it will work later on. One other comment has to do with decentralization of decision making. I think too many decisions are not being made at all in the first place. From what I hear from people at CDC now, what I've seen the past few years also decision making is it's natural for administrators, I suppose, to pull to themselves most of the decision making, even though this, in my view, is not good from the standpoint of the people down the line, the middle managers, and the people at the working level, there should be branch chiefs, in my opinion, should be able to make many more decisions than they're making. They should have more control of their budget, or should have a budget and have control of it. But especially they should be able to make decisions without having to go up the line too far. When decisions are made and personnel matters, quite often, I've noticed in the past by branch managers, they're not backed up by their superiors. And this is devastating to morale. And not only that, but I know at least one instance where it's been horribly expensive to CDC because higher level superiors did not pay attention to the recommendations of people at branch level. One other comment, I'm getting this off my chest, you see, now that I can do it, a lot of middle and upper manager, upper level managers tend to shift their responsibilities to the branch level. And I think this is unfortunate. I think it's a shirking responsibility on the part of some people at middle and upper levels, and it results branch chiefs not being able to have the time to do the job that they're supposed to do in supervising the work in their laboratories. They are pushing too many papers and attending too many meetings and attending the things that should be attended to by the next level up or the second level up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=2879.256,3140.942"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e If I may ask a question, is this a reason that so many scientists are shunning or some scientists are shunning positions of chiefs of laboratories because of this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=3140.942,3154.318"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I would think so, because anybody that's really interested in the research doesn't want to spend all his time pushing papers and I certainly was enormous factor in my request to be relieved of some of this paperwork so I could get back in the laboratory and do something that was fun and was accomplishing something. I felt a lot of what I was doing was just a waste of time writing reports that nobody ever looked at, or that they ask you a month later, ask you the same information that you just sent them a few weeks before, and this sort of thing. So I think, you know, branch managers should be freed from a lot of the bureaucratic responsibilities so that they can do the job they're supposed to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=3154.318,3202.41"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Cherry, I appreciate your depth of background and the history of CDC, and I appreciate your comments, which I'm sure the front office will receive with interest. And thank you very much for your interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=3202.41,3217.018"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, you're welcome, Jim. It was a pleasure. Pleasure was mine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=3217.018,3220.25"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433#t=3220.25,3221.25"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132654/file/247433/transcript/68943/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/943/original/transcript_1765555061.vtt20251212-2593616-l2jydc.vtt20251212-2593616-l2jydc?1765555061","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/943/original/transcript_1765555061.vtt20251212-2593616-l2jydc.vtt20251212-2593616-l2jydc?1765555061"}]}]}]}