{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/7m03x8561c/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Millar, Don And Joan"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2012-05-22"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. J. Donald Millar and his wife Joan relate their personal experiences and memories of the early history and personalities that helped CDC to evolve from Malaria Control in War Areas to the organization it is today. Interviewed by Karen Torghele"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Dr. J. Donald Millar and his wife Joan relate their personal experiences and memories of the early history and personalities that helped CDC to evolve from Malaria Control in War Areas to the organization it is today. Interviewed by Karen Torghele"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/455/small/MillarDonJoan.jpg?1727919523","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 20120522_Millar_Don_and_Joan.mp3"]},"duration":3866.462,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/455/small/MillarDonJoan.jpg?1727919523","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-globalhealthchronicles.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/247/455/original/20120522_Millar_Don_and_Joan.mp3?1722773565","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3866.462,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["[AssemblyAI Transcript] 20120522 Millar, Don and Joan [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e It's May 22, 2012, and I'm in the home of doctor Don Millar and his wife, Joan Millar. And we are in Murrayville, Georgia, in their very beautiful home. So I wanted to thank you for having me in your home. And I wanted to be sure that it's okay with you that we record our conversation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3.52,26.49"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e It's our pleasure to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=26.49,29.89"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you. Maybe what we'll do is start with getting a little bit of background about how you became a doctor in the first place and how you got involved with CDC, how you heard about it, and then what your experience was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=29.89,45.746"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Happy to do that. You want your drink over there, incidentally? Yeah, I'll get it. Okay. Let's talk about becoming a physician. I'm going to give you a document that I happen to just come across in the past two or three days. Don't let me forget to do that. It's some remarks I made accepting a prize from the University of Richmond, my alma mater, pre med alma mater. And it kind of. It really has nothing to do with CDC, but it gives you a little insight into the kind of romantic type person that I have the capability of being. So, anyway, let's move to the involvement of the CDC. I also want to be sure that we have plenty of time for Joan to tell her tales, because she's got some really good ones. Fitting the type of thing that you're interested in. But I started out wanting to be a rural physician in Virginia. But again, to back up a little before that, the decision to go into medicine shared a little bit with you earlier that I came home announcing to my parents that I wanted to be a schoolteacher. And my father was an engineer graduate of Georgia Tech, and he had gone back to Virginia and spent his life and career there. But when I came home, he said, son, you know, we don't have a whole lot, but I can tell you one thing. If you're a school teacher, you won't have what we have, and you'll have to work hard, and both of you have to work, blah, blah, blah. So it was a somewhat reserved. My father was never dramatic about things, but there was a reserved, if any, endorsement. So I figured, well, you better rethink this. And then I went home. Sometime later, I was actually in a high school play, our town, by Thornton Wilder, and I played the character Doc Gibbs in that play, which is a very wonderful character. I really enjoyed playing the part, but I was in the middle of rehearsing and producing that. And I said, well, why not? I mean, medicine why not? So I went home and announced that to my parents, and they were related. So from there on, it was just a matter of deciding where to go to premed and whatever. And I'll give you this document which points out that the choice of going to the University of Richmond was really fortuitous. Somebody told me about the WrVA U of r scholarship quiz program, and I went and competed in the first round. There's a whole story to that, too, but I'm not going to take up your time with that. I was late getting there, and the people running the scholarship quiz, things called up, said, where's the boy? Where are you? Supposed to be here today. And so I got in my mother's car, drove to Gloucester, Virginia, which was about 15 miles away, got there late, and dressed in jeans and some kind of wild looking sweater that I can't believe, at this point, I would ever have worn. But there I was in front of this audience, and the other contestants were, you know, nicely dressed and all. But anyway, I won the contest. So winning the contest, I got $350. That was my prize. And also the ability to compete in the next round. So the next round was in Richmond. And I actually lost that round to a girl who went to the University of Richmond as well. Her name was honor Patterson. But anyway, that 350, just that amount of money, induced me to go to the University of Richmond, as opposed to Uva or Hampden, Sydney, or some of these other places, VMI places, I was thinking about. And it was just divine intervention, because I've never regretted going to the University of Richmond and this thing that I will give you, because it's not in the CDC archives or anything, so you just enjoy knowing a little bit about me. But anyway, so I went to U of R. I got accepted at MCV within the three years. I wanted to do that because, you know, my parents were not wealthy, and I figured if they got one less year of medical school to pay for a premed, to pay for the better off. And so I did. I got in, in three years and went down to MCV. And I've never regretted that, either. That was a. That's the only medical school that I applied to. So if I hadn't gotten in there, I don't know what would have happened. But I knew from the dean down there that the University of Richmond had a very fine track record. There was only one college in the US that had a better track record for their graduates at MCV, and that was Haverford College in Pennsylvania. And actually, as an EIS guy. I ended up being president of that college. Fraser. Forgotten his first name. He's much later than I am. Okay. So then I went to medical school. Joan dropped out of college, and we got married, and I was third in my class the previous year. Then I got married and I ended up in the lower third of that class because I finally figured out what living was all about. And so it's very interesting how that worked because, you know, we had, we'd go out to eat once in a while and all this. And I lived with the first two years with the three guys, all of whom are still. One of them is dead now, but the other three, I just talked to one of them yesterday, as a matter of fact, in Virginia, is recovering from a tractor accident. And then at MCV, as we approached graduation, I did rally in my last year and end up in the upper third of the class, at least, but I didn't make AOA. I got that later on an honorary basis, but I didn't make it for real. So then there were three of us who for some reason or other, and I'm not really sure all the details of why this happened, but I wanted to go to Johns Hopkins in the Osler internship, which was thought to be the best in the country at that point, but I don't know how in the world I figured I was going to live on $25 a month with a pregnant wife who couldn't work at that point, blah, blah, blah. So anyway, I looked at that and I still said, I'm not going to give this up. It's a dream, blah, blah, blah. But what I'll do is I'll pick as second choice the University of Utah, which was the. It was the one academic center. Shall we just let it go or you're going to get it. It was an academic center that paid the highest rate to interns of any academic center I knew I wanted to be in an academic center. Plus, a bunch of people from Hopkins had gone out there to convert the University of Utah program from a two year school to a four year school. And people like Wintrobe and Cartwright, folks who are nationally known figures, were out there. So I listed Utah second, and then I listed third, the Marburg service at Hopkins as third. And again, I matched Utah. And so there were three of us in my class who went off, trucked off to Utah. It's kind of a lark, you know? What's it like out there? I've never been west of Richmond, and it kind of, I had been to Harrisonburg. But I mean it. You know what I mean? And in debating, we had gone out and debated the University of West Virginia at one point, but I really knew nothing about the west, and so. But we went out there and it turned out to be a great thing for us that the two guys I went with both came back to Virginia. I think one went to the medical college of Georgia for a year and then back to Virginia, but to finish their training in Richmond. But during that second year that I was out there again, I chose to stay on for assistant residency in medicine. And Joan was just distraught. I mean, she was very unhappy. Is that somebody important?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=45.746,698.38"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Brian is not available tomorrow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=698.38,700.572"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, okay. Well, that's good. Is it tomorrow? Tomorrow's Wednesday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=700.572,705.62"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e He's leaving tomorrow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=705.62,707.06"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, sorry. I was going to tell him. Tell her how distraught you were when I came home and announced that I was staying on for a second year in Utah. You want to talk? Say something about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=707.06,722.462"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it's not really important. I had already gotten my teaching job back in Richmond. I was ready to come home. But it was the best thing that happened to us because that next year, all of our friends from Virginia came home and we had to really relate to the people out in Utah. And it was great. We moved from an apartment to a little house. And I hated to leave Utah that next year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=722.462,759.324"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e But what happened during that second year, again, I see it at this point as a bit of divine intervention, was I got a draft notice while I was out there. I knew I had a military obligation to serve because I'd been deferred through medical school. I had started out in the ROTC at the University of Richmond, Air Force ROTC. But they, after the korean war, they quickly changed their requirements to stay in the air Force ROTC. You had to pass a flight physical. Well, at that. I grew up very myopic 2200. You can talk to Lyle Conrad. He had the same problem. But anyway, I knew that. Well, they said, you're out. Find something else, because we can't hold you this way with the eyes you've got. You'll never pass a flight physical. So I just said, well, I tell you what, korean war is over. Vietnam hadn't really gotten started good yet, and I'm just going to hang out and see what happens. And then as soon as I got into medical school, of course, I was deferred throughout because the doctor draft was still very much in place. But they far preferred having a physician rather than a pre med guy. I was fine all the way through medical school. Well, in Utah I finally got my draft notice and they said, again, because we were between wars, they said, find a commission in one of the uniformed services or we will call you to active duty as of thus and thus date and you will be assigned to the army. Well, I didn't have anything against the army, but I knew that if I had some options, I'd rather exercise the options. So I had already applied to the US Navy Berry plan earlier in my internship when I thought I wanted to be an obstetrician, if you can believe that. But they were full again, a piece of divine intervention because I've would have been very unhappy as an obstetrician. I thought I really liked it. You know, people are happy having babies and all that, but the sort of way folks have to live when they are on call and all that kind of thing, I would never have gotten to it for long. So anyway, they were closed. That door was closed. And then I moved on to internal medicine later in my internship and decided then I will pursue the assistant residency in internal medicines. They had a great program, all these superstars. And so I did that. Well, I got this draft notice and very quickly after that I ran into Luther Giddings, who was an EIS officer three years before I was, and he had returned to Utah and was a resident in pediatrics. So I was talking to him one night. He said, well, look, this program at CDC, I mean, it's really a great program. I just came out of it. It's called the epidemic Intelligence Service. I had two great years and I really enjoyed all of it, he said, and I knew I wasn't enough of a bench scientist to want to go to NIH, which some of my colleagues who were at Utah were going to go to NIH and serve their military obligation there. And the whole idea of epidemic intelligence service, that appealed to my romantic nature. So I said, well, man, that sounds good to me. So I got on the phone the next day and called in the CDC, inquired, you know, what about the epidemic intelligence service? And in those days, I don't know how this works, but the guy I talked to was Alex Langmuir, so, you know, legendary superstar. And I said, doctor Langmuir, I'm Don Millar, blah blah. I'm out here as assistant resident of medicine at Utah and I like to join the epidemic intelligence service. He said, son, where have you been for the last year? Usually people are at least twelve months ahead applying to us. I'm amazed that you thought you might have any prospect. But he said, but it turns out that somebody just withdrew from the EIS class of 61 yesterday, and if you're good enough, you can have that slot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=759.324,1087.94"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You'd have to come for an interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1087.94,1089.58"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I said, well, how do I demonstrate that I'm good enough? He said, you get in here and fly in here and we'll interview you and then we'll make some decisions. I said, doctor Langmuir, I don't have a pot to wee wee in or a window to throw it out of. I can't buy a plane ticket and come in there. It's out of the question. I said, is there any other alternative? So he said, well, yeah, I'm kind of desperate to get this slot filled. So you tell me, give me the names of your mentors in Utah, and I will inquire. And if they think and I think you're good enough, we'll let you in. So I gave him, I think it was a dozen names or close to it, everybody that I had, and one of them was a guy named Paul Holbrick, who eventually wrote a really wonderful book, infectious diseases. And we had had a diphtheria epidemic on the geriatric ward while I was out there. And at that point, he had said, you need to start reading the MMWRs from CDC. And he acquainted me with the concept. CDC was not an alien concept at that point because I had read some of their stuff related to diphtheria. But anyway, so he. As far as I know, he checked with every one of those people. I mean, I talked to bunches of them later. Oh, yeah, we talked to Doctor Langmuir and blah, blah, blah. We tried to do what we could for you. You know, I don't know how long it was later. Do you remember how long it was? It was a matter of a few days. He called and said, okay, you've been accepted in the class of so and so, and we need you to come into the spring conference in April. So this must have been January or so. So I got in there for the spring conference. It was quite a deal to get to because they were paying for it. But to get from Salt Lake City to Atlanta, in those days, I flew Salt Lake City to Denver, changed planes, Denver to Cleveland, changed planes, Cleveland to Atlanta. So I got in late at night, whenever it was. And of course, the next morning, the conference started with this pre thing where you looked at the list of all the jobs that were available and decided which you wanted to apply for. And Alex in those days, you know, he took this whole thing about the fulfilling of military obligation very seriously. And he never tried to cut any corners with any of that. And that's the way he was. I mean, he was very demanding on himself, you know, if he thought this draft deferment for eis depended on diligence, integrity and all that, he made sure that that's the way it was going to be. So you didn't get a. And so he insisted that everybody in the EIS class lists three categories of assignments. One of them had to be a state health officer, a state health department somewhere. Then you could apply for jobs in Atlanta. And I've forgotten what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1089.58,1330.89"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Wasn't it an indian service that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1330.89,1333.682"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it wasn't, but I think it was. They were trying to beef up Brockman's enterprise at that point. So you had to list one that was in his investigations section. Okay. So I came to the conference and I looked around and I said, you know, this Guy LangMuir, he's phenomenal. You want to be around him, so do what you can to get An AtlaNta assignment. I duly listed a state health department, Kansas. And I figured I'd been through Kansas on the way to Utah, and they.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1333.682,1377.16"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Had a field station.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1377.16,1378.592"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And there was. Yeah, there was also the Kansas City field station was there. So I knew, you know, you're going to have some contact with other people from CDC as well. Anyway, I filed my list and I had to come back early for some reason or other. I had duty or something that had to be done in Utah. So I left town, filed my preferences. Oh, but I'm missing a key part. You know, in the spring conference, they always had a picnic in Da Henderson's backyard. At least it was at that point. It may have started out in Langmuir's backyard. 4 July was always Langmuir's backyard, which Joan told you about. But I went to that picnic in DA Henderson's backyard, and I had never politicked for anything in my life. In fact, I had a teacher in high school who had told me, look, you have leadership capability. You are ignoring it because you have a friend who's running for president of the SCA. You're running for reporter. That's an insult, that amount of talent. Anyway, so I said, well, I've never politicized for anything in my life, but I want to do this one because I want to end up near this Mandev. So I went in and did what I thought I could do to politic, which was made sure I talked to Langmuir, DA Henderson, Phil Brockman, and probably Bob Kaiser and some other people who had sort of leadership roles of one sort or another, I made the rounds. And so when it came time to file the preference list, I filed mine in the top of the list was the assistant chief EIS officer, which was the first year of eis in Langmuir's office. And I left town with the list, undecided. Came home to Utah, and I got a call from somebody, either in the air, was it in the airport? I think it was in the Atlanta air, old Atlanta airport, saying that you've. You've got your job. So I went back, told John, we're going to Atlanta. We went via Virginia, I mean, from Utah to Tidewater, Virginia to Atlanta. That almost doubles the trip. But that's what we did. We didn't know any better, you know, about stuff like that. But anyway, I got the job. I went to work, and I just finished. Did. I emailed you this thing about Bill Feige?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1378.592,1568.988"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1568.988,1569.58"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. That part of my assignment was to go with Russ Runyon, who was the commissioned officer designate in the personnel office at that point. It subsequently was Louise Griggs, who's a very close friend of ours now and has been for years. But I mean, Russ and I went up on the train, Atlantic coastline Railroad, which you could still do it. And Russ was, that was his mode, chosen mode of travel, and looked over a list of candidates among the interns and, well, it weren't candidates. I mean, these. The task was go up there and look at all the officers currently in the public health service who are interns at PHS hospitals. And in those days, there were PHS hospitals, Staten Island, Savannah, Seattle, and some others. But anyway, I looked over the list, and here's this guy, William H. Faggie on the list, Md. It turns out it was Staten Island. I didn't know at the time I communed with you which hospital it was. But, yeah, he was on the list. I remember talking to him afterwards, and he was, he wasn't real enthusiastic about the EIS for some reason. And he responded to me saying he thinks it was because he had heard it was full and he wasn't going to be able to get in. But anyway, whatever. But as it turned out, when the class assembled, the class of 62 that he was in, he was there, and from there on, it's a great story. But anyway, so I fulfilled my duties in that regard, these sort of administrative duties, and then was retained for the second year, at least for half of that second year when I was chief EIS officer. But another thing about Langmuir that was, you know, he had tremendous confidence in the people he had recruited. He was thorough in it, and he figured if you're one of his boys, you got to be good. So. And he used to kid me because he said, melar, you're in this outfit under false pretenses. I said, what? How do you think of that? Doctor Lamuird? Well, when you came in, I thought you were a graduate of the University of Virginia. I didn't realize you were from MCV. The practitioner's school attempt at being a little bit. It was whimsical, but, you know, I got the point. But he was really so good to me all the way along anyway. And one of the things he did, he wanted his boys. Anytime you want to stop this and let her have, let me know, because, you know, this can go on for days. But the, the thing that he always wanted his boys, and we had. We had two women in that class, but it was just beginning to become kind of accessible to women broadly. And now, I think, over half of the classes, it's a great change, incidentally. But it was a draft fulfilling thing, and they had to have some affiliation. Okay. He wanted, well, back up a little bit because he took the draft thing so seriously. He prided himself on, we can have an officer anywhere in this country in 24 hours. That was his. And we can have an officer anywhere in the world in 48 hours. And so, you know. And you talk to a lot of people who spent a lot of time in the field during their first eis years. Yeah. I mean, this was. Nobody in the military was getting flown around the world and all that stuff on things like this. And in my first two years, I went around the world twice, and he had this thing that his boys could do anything with anybody if it involved epidemiology. So you got a call one day. Have you got somebody down there that can be part of a team to go to Indonesia and study the. Assess the indonesian malaria eradication program, which at that time was the second largest in the world. There was a big one in India, and then there was the one in Indonesia. Next one. I guess he looked over his list of folks he could get by without or something, and he said, yeah, well, we're going to send you this guy Millar, Don Millar. And so I went up to Washington and met with the people involved, thinking I still had the option to refuse or not refuse to. That wasn't the case. I mean, I had been committed to do this, and so it became clear up there. No. He said, you're part of the team, blah, blah, blah. And they were leaving fairly soon. I mean, it was. I don't know, this was probably September or October, and the team was supposed to be in the field in November, so. But anyway, I came back from there and got ready to go, and I ended up spending. I'd never been. I had been west of Richmond by then, but I hadn't been out of this country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1569.58,1963.118"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You had, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1963.118,1964.286"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Had I been to Bermuda then? Yeah, I'd been to Bermuda and looked at a suspect case of smallpox, which was chicken pox. But. So I went out to Indonesia, and I was utterly blown away by the whole deal. I mean, first of all, Indonesia is a beautiful country. Terrorists, rice fields and all of this. They were desperately poor and their money was worthless. But in terms of physical, the landscape and all of that, it's a lovely country. And so. And I was intoxicated also. Bye, malaria. I mean, this is a very interesting thing where you. It had a complicated life cycle of the mosquito, a complicated life cycle of the actual parasite that infects you. Different forms of disease appear depending on the type of the parasite. And it was really very complicated, interesting stuff. And moreover, they liked me out there. And so the guy who was running the malaria program for Indonesia called Colonel Azeel. He had actually visited CDC at some point, and I met him during that, or maybe they came later. I've got the timing a little bit awkward. Anyway, Azeal was very impressed with me, for whatever reasons. Impressionable american kid, I think that was his deal. But he said, you know, we can work with this guy. So. And the guy who was running the malaria program at that point was a kind of a no nonsense industrial hygienist or environmentalist from South Carolina who was 20 years older than I was, and just a much more formidable thing to deal with for the Indonesians. So anyway, he was going to be rotating out of that job. And so they offered me the job, come back as head of the malaria program. I knew I couldn't come back as a head of it, that I might come back as epidemiologist in the program, but I had enough sense to know I'm over my head in this kind of stuff. But we came home and I announced to Joan, this is a great thing. I have a great opportunity and I want to do it, and blah, blah, blah. So she starts. She went to the indonesian embassy in Washington. I went up there for a debriefing for the trip. And while I'm doing the debriefing, she's over at the US, at the indonesian embassy, learning how to cook indonesian food. You want to take it? If this one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=1964.286,2166.332"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, he came home and he wanted to eat all this food he had been eating for six weeks, and I didn't know how to cook any of it. He said, it's rice and a little meat or a little fish or a little chicken. And so I went to the library and found some books that had some recipes, mainly from Holland, where they did the Indonesian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2166.332,2195.042"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that was a dutch colony.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2195.042,2197.97"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e I found a few recipes, and I did this one dish and called him and said, don't eat a lot today because I'm making this great sumatran shrimp and chicken dish for you. And so when he came home, he said, it's very authentic, but it's the one thing I didn't like over there. So we all. We got in the car at night and rushed down to Decatur to get a McDonald's. It was. The McDonald's had just opened. They had one shop in Decatur. And so we decided we'd go there for dinner. That was our first night, and I think it's one of the few nights we've ever eaten at McDonald's. But so then when he went to Washington, I thought, well, if I could go eat indonesian food in an indonesian restaurant, I would be able to figure out the spices and I would have it right. So I couldn't find anything in the telephone book. So I called the indonesian embassy and asked if there were restaurants, and they said, not really, but if you want to eat some indonesian food and you want to see something about our culture, come down here to the embassy, and we will play a gamelin orchestra, gamelon orchestra for you, the bells and the drums and all. And then you can eat with us, and we have some recipes that we can give you. So that's what I did. And I was all set to go a little bit nervous about going to a foreign country with three children. But as it turned out. What was the group?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2197.97,2322.112"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, anyway, the British announced that they were going to form Malaysia. Malaysia, out of their colonies in Malaya and Brunei, part of the Indonesian. Okay. The Indonesians saw this as a huge threat to them and the British and all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2322.112,2348.82"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e So they were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2348.82,2349.676"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e So they were storming and protesting and doing all kinds of things, burning cars in front of the embassy, in the british embassy. So. And there was a guy who made a real name for himself at that point, who was a scottish piper, and he'd get out there in the courtyard of the indonesian british embassy and march up and down playing his bagpipe. And it was, you know, he was world famous. Here's a guy down there doing. And.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2349.676,2382.418"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e But anyway, State Department canceled that trip.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2382.418,2385.526"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, they said they're on the British now. It'll be us before long. So we're canceling all assignments. And so we never went there. And again, I mean, it was just a huge blessing, because while we. In the period during when we would have been there, there was the night of the long knives, where the indonesian populace rose up against the communists, and they killed 250,000 people in one night, the night of the long knives. And we had befriended some students at Georgia Tech who were from Indonesia. And when we thought we were going to be going there and all, we.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2385.526,2436.018"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Had the boba for dinner, and they would come and cook indonesian foods and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2436.018,2441.89"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Do the indonesian candle dance. I've got a. Somewhere around here tapestry of that. But anyway, so one of those guys came through London. By this time, I was at the London School of Hygiene, Tropical Medicine. It was right after that episode in Washington of chicken pox, alleged to be smallpox. And he came through during that year that I was over there, and he was on his way home, and he didn't know what he was going to find, whether his family had been massacred or whatever. He just didn't have any information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2441.89,2480.176"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e It was just within a week of the night of the long knives that the State Department shut everything else down. But they sent all indonesian students home. And I thought that was really difficult because we didn't have cell phones. They didn't know what was going on in their country and what they were going to find when they got there, but they had to leave the US.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2480.176,2514.57"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, anyway, where are we? We're still in my first two years. Okay. I came back from Indonesia and arrived back. It was right at Christmas time. I met you guys in Virginia for Christmas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2514.57,2538.282"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e You came home Christmas morning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2538.282,2540.162"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. So I write, flew on the way back. I mean, it was just one of those incredible things, the way they happened. But I got to New York and they said, well, the weather on the east coast is. This is on the way back from Indonesia. I'd gone through London and Liverpool and met with Professor Downey at Liverpool, who knew something about smallpox. Oh, I'm missing a piece, but I'm going to come back to it. Let's finish this first. There is a. And the word was, well, it socked in all the way down to at least Richmond, at least Washington. So you may have to derail at Washington well, we got on a plane, got down to Washington, landed there, and they said, yep, done for the rest of the coast. So you're going to have to go home by greyhound, so. Or trailways, whatever it was. So I went, got the greyhound bus. It was snowing in Washington and everything, and I ended up getting home on, what was it? 04:00 a.m. on Christmas day. Day. And by greyhound, I mean, after all this around the world, glorious stuff, ended up coming out greyhound from Washington to my hometown, Virginia, Newport News. But anyway, okay, let me back up a little bit, because there's an important piece of the puzzle here for your purposes, and that is that when I was in my first year as an EIS officer, Doctor Langmuir came into my office one afternoon, and he says, don, I want you to start keeping an eye on smallpox. I said, oh, sure. I mean, we have who data that are published periodically, and I'll do it. So I got a map up there and started marking on the map where smallpox was in the world. Of course, this was, you know, Alex Langmuir is the father of surveillance. He didn't invent it. I mean, there were some people along the way who had made major contributions, including snow and his cholera thing. And there was a guy in London who collected vital statistics, who's a well known biostatistician, and they certainly had laid the groundwork, but in terms of surveillance of individual diseases, that's Alex Langer's territory. And so he came in and started keeping an eye on smallpox. I had a map and stuff, and lo and behold, at the end of that first year, there were four importations into Great Britain. And so I had another trip coming up, and I went through and talked to the health officer, Douglas, who had done the investigations in Bradford. They were in Bradford, somewhere down south, I've forgotten where that. But these were basically Pakistanis who came into Britain with smallpox, and they spread to varying degrees. Some of them spread quite tragically. I mean, there was a pathologist over there, british pathologist, and he'd never been vaccinated. He was exposed to smallpox, and he died of it. It was a very well known guy, but anyway, and the point, again with Langmuir was, keep an eye on these things. This is important now. Yeah, we don't have all the data, we don't know the total number of cases and all that, but we need to know something about the awareness of these things, because our country is vulnerable to the same kinds of importations. So it was against that background, this woman arrived from Ghana with a rash illness turned out to be chicken pox. But the possible threat was very graphic, and it happened in Europe at least five times in that winter of 62. So, anyway, and I had the privilege of going through London and talking to the people who had control those things and all that, so. But anyway, when I got back from Indonesia, he said to me, I want you to move down the hall to da Henderson's. Well, I was really crestfallen. I mean, I loved, worshipped, I guess, is a better phrase. Doctor language. I just thought he was the consummate leader, and he knew what he wanted to do. He was technically brilliant in that he was a master of epidemic theory. So when I ended up going to London school, I studied very closely with George McDonald, who was the expert theoretical mathematician and modeler for malaria. And so I had really been close to two of the people. And the thing of it is, they were very well prepared. This had nothing to do with politics. This had to do with expertise. And so I was really quite crestfallen, and I owe a lot to Da Henderson. He was very helpful to me when I was coming along. And he did, in fact, have us establish a smallpox unit, and he was willing to assign EIS officers to me to develop that unit. And those were the four guys that went up and looked at this lady with chicken pox and said, no, no, that's not. And we were. We had a lot of expertise that we built. Plus, he glommed onto the jet gun. Army came to us and said, you know, we need somebody to test this new intramural, intradermal nozzle that we'd like to start using in the military to do smallpox vaccination. So, yeah, Da said, sure, do it. So we set up some studies and tested it. And to make a long story short, there, the nozzle worked brilliantly. I mean, it was far better than the existing multiple puncture method. Eventually, a guy at Wyeth Labs invented the bifurcated needle, and they did the indian program largely with bifurcated needle. But the jet gun, as a result of our studies and adopting that method, in West Africa and in Brazil, there were, what did I say? Half a billion people or something like that? No, I forgot what it was. Anyway, between the two areas, Brazil and West Africa, there were 150 and 300,000. 300 million people vaccinated against with that jet gun. And we eradicated smallpox in West Africa in no time, 18 months earlier than expected. And in Brazil, they had a very similar success story. Now, I would be say, at this point, I recognize that two legitimate heroes emerged from the smallpox eradication program. Da Henderson and Bill Fahey. But I was there at the beginning, so that. Just wanna say that. And I've got a spiritual counselor I'm dealing with once a week. He's telling me, you gotta get rid of that ego, Boyd. So I'm working on that too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=2540.162,3078.386"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e But we need to get back to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3078.386,3081.25"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Why don't you take over?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3081.25,3082.538"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e People that were here when we came in and the people that knew the program when it was still measles and those were people like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3082.538,3097.93"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e You're talking about the west african measles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3097.93,3100.506"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I'm nothing. I'm talking about when you came in in 1961, the people that were here, that had been here in the 4151 period and we. I can't speak for you, but I looked up to these men and women, wives of these men, I looked up to them as really prime examples of what we were supposed to become. Doctor Lamuel definitely was one of them. The EIS, I mean, the public health. What was Doctor Goddard. Doctor Goddard. Doctor Goddard came later. Stuart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3100.506,3165.58"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, Johannes Stewart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3165.58,3168.956"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Johannes Stewart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3168.956,3170.3"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e He's the uncle of Stu Kingla. He was based in Washington.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3170.3,3175.172"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e But he was, but he was the, the man you wanted to get to be. What was that position? The top person at CDC. Not the director. Not the director. Surgeon general. The surgeon general of the Public Health Service was the. Stewart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3175.172,3204.11"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, that was Bill Stewart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3204.11,3207.15"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, Bill Stewart was here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3207.15,3209.966"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. He was an EIS officer in the era. She's absolutely right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3209.966,3214.022"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e The era she's talking about. I'm trying to get back to the area. Not so much of what was going on when we were here, but the people who were here when we came, who had been in that. So Bill Stewart. And the thing about Bill Stewart that was important was that he recognized Doctor Langmuir's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3214.022,3241.47"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Now you're talking about Joseph Mountain now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3241.47,3244.71"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e No, Joseph Mountain I only knew of by hearsay. I never met him. He was gone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3244.71,3251.262"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e He was dead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3251.262,3251.998"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e He was dead when we arrived. I'm talking about Bill Stewart who was chief of. Not director of CDC. He was a public health. I mean, he was a surgeon general. Later, later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3251.998,3272.29"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, then he was an EIS officer and I don't know the year then it must be 51.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3272.29,3278.69"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, well, so he's, he's in the group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3278.69,3282.29"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e He's somebody you're talking about that we all knew was in Washington, had gone on to great things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3282.29,3287.962"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e The thing that was important was that these people recognized CDC had been the malaria program. But, and that's what they were focused on. But Doctor Lamuir was one of the first ones to come who said, it's got to be communicable diseases. There are diseases beyond malaria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3287.962,3314.63"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Don't confuse. The guy who had the idea that the scope of CDC should be expanded from malaria control in war eras to communicable diseases was Joseph Mountain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3314.63,3328.722"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, and I agree with you on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3328.722,3331.698"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And he was an assistant, a deputy surgeon general.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3331.698,3334.938"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, what I'm telling you is, in our time, Doctor Langmuir had the ability to send men all over the world to focus on any disease that cropped up, that could even be put under the umbrella of infectious diseases or contagious epidemic type diseases. That man was Doctor Langmuir.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3334.938,3364.426"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3364.426,3364.93"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e And the steward recognized that, and they gave Doctor Langmuir the freedom to, and the funding to ship off men all over the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3364.93,3377.046"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the thing about you're absolutely right about the shift in thinking that is attributable to Alex Langman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3377.046,3390.398"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3390.398,3391.206"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Because he was brought in there. I don't know the story of how he actually got to CDC, but what he accomplished when he got there was shifting the focus from malaria control and war era to it was Joe Mountain who had that idea. We need to expand this. And Joe Mountain certainly understood that it was state health departments and support of them. Oh, that's another thing about Langmuir. He said, look, the constitution of. Oh, boy, he was a great constitutionalist. Among other things, he said, the constitution defines this country in this way. Public health is the responsibility of state government. He had this very clear, and he had maybe from his days as a state health department employee in New York. And so we are only in there at the invitation of the state. Very. And he harped on that. I mean, we used to go over there at nights when epidemics were going on and get out these telegrams to all the state health departments telling them whatever the current information was. Alex didn't mind day or night. I mean, if it needed to be done, you get and do it. But that, you're absolutely right to bring that into focus. Somebody had to take charge of the notions of broadening to CDC and expanding communicable diseases. Alex did that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3391.206,3500.142"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, he was the one that that did it. And it wasn't so much the director of CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3500.142,3507.032"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, it was never the director. The directors, yeah, they had enough sense. Larry Smith, for instance. They had enough sense to leave him alone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3507.032,3514.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e That's right. They gave him the freedom to expand that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3514.24,3522.16"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know when? I don't know when he left CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3522.16,3525.144"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you know, doctor, let doctor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3525.144,3528.176"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e It was during our time that he went back. I remember this. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3528.176,3536.45"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e He left when he was 59. I remember that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3536.45,3539.874"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e But he went back to become, again a faculty member at Johns Hopkins. Or maybe it was Harvard. Was it Harvard? You check that out. It's either Hopkins or Harvard. Anyway, I think it was Harvard. Yeah. Went back to Harvard. Somebody induced him to do that. And I'll never forget the first time I ran into him again after that. And we were fairly close. He used to come here for supper when he was in town, things like that. He said, don, I just don't understand these people. You know, they're not serious, these kids. They're more interested in rebelling and this, that and that students and, you know, he'd been king of the universe at CDC and EIS officers coming in there and doing the EIS training. I mean, he was way up there, and for him to go and get what he viewed as insulted by some medical student at Harvard, really, that hurt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3539.874,3611.3"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3611.3,3612.028"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And, you know, the day it was. It was those days, you know, it was the seventies, eighties Berkeley. They were raging and fuming and all that, but just the way it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3612.028,3622.012"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Sounds like you had a rebel in your house, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3622.012,3625.54"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e In our house?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3625.54,3626.396"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e In your own house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3626.396,3628.7"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Well, you want. Let's shoot gears and you tell him if you're rebel, you've told her one already. But what about the other one you were telling me? Well, I just remembered when you did the Wives club and they.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3628.7,3646.156"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Well, when I came, I had been teaching with a provisional certificate in Virginia when he was in school, but I had never really finished my undergraduate work. So when he got a salary, then he said, you've done everything you could to help me. Now we will just rent a house, and you can go back to school. We won't buy a house and get involved with that. We'll just rent, and you can go back to school and finish. So I was in school, and they had this group called the Public Health Wives Club that had a luncheons and speakers, and it was just a way of getting together once a month and staying and playing bridge and this kind of thing. But the Wives club was all of the public health wives from laboratories and all that, and I couldn't get to those because I was in school. So. But I waited to really be able to understand what was going on at CDC and be a part of it. So I started a group called the Eiswives Club, which was a branch of the public health. And we met at night. We had, like I said, circles. At nighttime circles, we'll have a little public health wives club, but we'll call it the EIS officers wives Club. So that's what I formed. And we had a good group that came out at night, and we met in homes and really didn't do a whole lot, but try to support the wives whose husbands were off traveling and just tried to get to know one another and to be able to understand what was going on at CDC from our perspective. So, Doctor Lam York, Donald must have said something that first year that I was doing that I had started this club, and we had had several meetings. So when it came time that summer for him to have. For Doctor Langmuir to have his dinner, his wife was up in Nantucket and was not going to be able to do the picnic. So I went over to pick up Donald one afternoon, and he called me in his office. He said, I need to talk to you. And when I went in, he said, now, I always have a picnic for the Eiswives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3646.156,3827.46"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Officers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3827.46,3827.916"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eC:\u003c/strong\u003e For the EIS officers. And I have it on the 4 July, and you are to do it this year. I want your group to do it. And I just said, I cannot speak for the group. I cannot tell you that we will do it. Eyes got really large and, like, you know, no one telling things like that. And I said, I promise you I will get back in touch with you in just a little while, but I'll have to check with the women and see if this is something they would like to do. So within a couple of hours, I was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455#t=3827.916,3880.916"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132676/file/247455/transcript/68965/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/965/original/transcript_1765821052.vtt20251215-2593616-e2pqd1.vtt20251215-2593616-e2pqd1?1765821053","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/965/original/transcript_1765821052.vtt20251215-2593616-e2pqd1.vtt20251215-2593616-e2pqd1?1765821053"}]}]}]}