{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/db7vm44m1f/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Schaeffer, Morris"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2011-10-23"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Morris Schaeffer, MD. PhD. Former Chief of the Virus and Rickettsia Section, Montgomery, Alabama, describes his years with the Virus and Rickettsia section as the happiest in his life. Interviewed by Jim Paine."]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Dr. Morris Schaeffer, MD. PhD. Former Chief of the Virus and Rickettsia Section, Montgomery, Alabama, describes his years with the Virus and Rickettsia section as the happiest in his life. Interviewed by Jim Paine."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/460/small/1722773619_1984_Schaeffer_Morris_faststart_1722773641.jpg?1722759242","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 1984_Schaeffer_Morris_faststart.mp4"]},"duration":3597.863,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/460/small/1722773619_1984_Schaeffer_Morris_faststart_1722773641.jpg?1722759242","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-globalhealthchronicles.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/247/460/original/1984_Schaeffer_Morris_faststart.mp4?1722773603","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3597.863,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["[AssemblyAI Transcript] 1984 Schaeffer, Morris [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Good morning, Doctor Schaeffer, and welcome back to CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=21.0,24.59"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you, Jim. It's always a pleasure to be back here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=24.59,28.11"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I think there's been a lot of water over the proverbial dam since we first worked together in 1952. And I don't really know whether I should introduce you as the former director of the virus and Rickettsia section in Montgomery, Alabama, or the former New York City health officer, or the present director of drugs and biologic services for FDA.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=28.11,49.23"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, of all the titles, the chief of the CDC virus laboratory appeals to me most. That was the best period of my life. It was the most exciting, most productive, and the happiest in my career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=49.23,67.26"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e With a career like yours, that's quite a compliment. We thank you for CDC. You got the AB degree and an MA degree from the University of Alabama. But was your. Was your place of birth in Alabama, sir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=67.26,81.428"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it wasn't. In fact, I think most people would be surprised to know that I was born in Russia and came to the US in 1913 at age five. However, I was raised on the sidewalks of New York, so I consider myself basically a New Yorker, an old New Yorker.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=81.428,102.06"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And subsequently you got a PhD degree and an MD degree from New York University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=102.06,108.8"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I studied with the famous William H. Park, who was the american pasteur of his time, and then subsequently went to medical school because I felt that that background was necessary for the work in public health that I was interested in doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=108.8,128.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And then after your MD degree and prior to coming to CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=128.24,134.96"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e What was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=134.96,135.424"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Your work then, sir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=135.424,136.192"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Well, I followed up the MD degree with an internship at Boston City Hospital, then went to Western Reserve University, now called Case Western Reserve, where I actually trained in pediatrics and taught microbiology, as well as running a contagious disease unit at the city hospital of Cleveland. So that was also an interesting, what you may say, a prelude to coming into the communicable disease center. I was getting ready for the work here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=136.192,174.02"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You came to the virus in Rickettsia lab in 1949?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=174.02,178.356"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it was May of 1949.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=178.356,180.5"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you happen to accept that? Positions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=180.5,184.164"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Like many things that happened to us, it was just. It was an accident. I happened to be attending a meeting, a medical meeting, in which one of the CDC people had given a paper on developments of CDC program. I talked to the gentleman afterwards and he said, I think Seward Miller, the director of laboratories, might be interested in you with your background in virology. Why don't you drop him a note? I did that and then received an invitation from Seward Miller to come to Atlanta to give a lecture where I think they had everybody of importance in the shop giving me the once over to see whether I would do or not. Subsequently I received an invitation to join and take charge of the virus laboratory in Montgomery, which I did very enthusiastically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=184.164,241.956"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you establish that laboratory, sir, or was it in existence when you moved in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=241.956,246.796"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the laboratory was already going. I think it had been operating for a couple of years. There was a very nice lady by the name of Beatrice Howitt who was in charge, and Robert Kissling was working with her. There. A few other. There was Ernie Tirkle and Harry Rubin doing some rabies work. The laboratory was primarily a station for processing specimens that came from the outside. Other than a little bit of research that was carried on by Ernest Tirkle and Harry Rubin, mainly in dogs with rabies, it was obvious that that laboratory needed some considerable development. And I knew that we would be able to do that because Seward Miller was very keen on getting that done and was an enthusiastic supporter of everything, getting us everything we needed, we wanted. But what I did, the first thing I did was to find a good sanitary engineer. And it happened to be Earl Arnold, who later became, as it were, the deputy. I think we called him, the executive officer. But he was involved in more than just administrative work. And with his help we constructed a number of barrack type buildings and put up quonset huts. Animal facilities were improved. We brought in some excellent people. We were very lucky in getting Roy Chamberlain and a first rate entomologist. Robert Kisling was sent to New York to get some training in virology, and he later did some very outstanding work end pathology and virology. We had a succession of people who helped us in developing the diagnostic laboratory. And I think the most important thing we did in the beginning, in addition to establishing better facilities and bringing in the people needed to embellish, the potential was to start a training program, I believe the first in the United States or in the world to provide a diagnostic virology training course was set up initially for state laboratory personnel. But we had many students from universities and from many foreign countries. No sooner was the announcement made, it was filled. We gave them twice a year for three weeks period, and in a matter of ten years we extended the ability of states from three in the United States to something like 23 or 24 who are now capable of doing some basic diagnostic virology which previously they had to depend upon CDC to do for them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=246.796,451.53"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned recruitment. Was it difficult to recruit people in 1949? Was that a problem? The technical people both the professional staff and the technical people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=451.53,461.234"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I thought it would be almost impossible, but I found myself wrong. I recruited the best secretary I've ever had to this day, from Montgomery, Alabama, a lady by the name of Robbie Kelso. She was so superb. Our technicians were as good as you could find anywhere. Yes, we. But they were readily trainable and very dedicated, and we were able, as our reputation grew, we were able to get some very excellent people to join us. So it wasn't very long before our laboratory developed a national reputation. As I told my, the crew at the beginning, I said, you know, we will know that we've succeeded. When Ed Lynette, the director of the virus Rickettsia Laboratory for the state of California, which was of high repute when he comes here or sends his people to see what we're doing and when, and Jose Medell from the Walter Reed, Byron McKessie Laboratory, which was the greatest in the country at that time, when they come looking to see what we're up to, we'll know we were arrived. And by golly, it didn't take very long before they came to see what we were doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=461.234,541.56"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You've talked about personnel and you've talked about staff. I suppose the next logical question is procurement of equipment. In these years following World War Two, was that a problem?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=541.56,554.16"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I. No, it wasn't, because we were in that period in public health where the Congress was giving good support and to NIH and to other public health service units. I think we were in the, maybe the golden age at the time. And so money was available and we were able to get the equipment and the supplies and all, and the financial support we needed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=554.16,587.99"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe it was in 1949 that western equine encephalitis and eastern equine encephalitis antibodies were found in the virus of birds. I guess that became a link.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=587.99,602.79"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Our laboratory played an important role and working out the interrelationship between birds, mosquitoes, mammals and human in this cycle. Virus cycle for eastern western St. Louis encephalitis, and subsequently some work was done with venezuelan encephalitis. We had the chamberlain, Roy Chamberlain and Dan Soudia as the entomology key people, and we had. We also were fortunate enough in getting a young veterinarian by the name of Donald Stam, who was a superb field man. He was a. His father had taught him to hunt and fish and he knew how to trap birds. He knew how to. He loved the field and did help develop he and kissling. And of course, Arnold also took played an important role. As I said earlier, he was more than administrator, developed an excellent program in which we were able to develop important data with regard to the birds and the mammals and the species of mosquitoes that were probably the key elements, vectors and reservoirs and so on. Perhaps later Earl will tell you a little bit more about that. I understand you will be talking with him, but this was one of the, I think, the important contributions of the Montgomery virus laboratory to the so called arthropod borne virus knowledge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=602.79,704.51"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Where was this? Early you mentioned bleeding and trapping of birds and the mosquito related. Where was this work done? In what part of the country?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=704.51,713.79"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, a lot of it was done out in the field initially, some in Alabama, but most of it was done in Louisiana Bayou area, which was a sort of a hotbed for that sort of thing. They had all of the species involved. And Don Stam worked out a method of using japanese mist nets, very fine nets that could hardly be seen to trap birds, bleed them, and then release them again. In previous work, it was necessary to shoot the birds, and then you could just get that one bleeding. But Don was able to trap, for instance, one bird as many as eight times during a summer and autumn season, and see the development of antibodies against one of the encephalitis viruses, indicating that these birds were bitten by mosquitoes harboring that virus, and then they would be tighter, a virus tighter, high enough for other mosquitoes to pick up the virus from them and transmit it. We were able to get different levels of both virus development in the viremia stage so that we could tell whether it would be important or not in the transmission cycle. And of course, the antibodies would tell us about when the virus entered. Time of antibody development indicated, even though the virus was no longer there, that animal had been in contact with the virus for some time. And if we could watch the rise and tighter and drop, we would get some idea of the timetable in which this took place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=713.79,827.23"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Were you also working on newcastles at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=827.23,830.75"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that was at that time a virus of some interest, because from an economic point of view, it infected chickens, but it was also primarily, and it was an easy virus, so primarily was a research tool to a large extent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=830.75,852.546"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And Coxsackie, were you all working on the coxsackie virus, too?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=852.546,857.322"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Well, you see, yes, because Coxsackie was polio like virus, and occasionally would produce a disease like polio, it was important, and this was a period in which these viruses were coming, had been discovered and were coming along. And so it was necessary to know the ecologic relationship of these viruses and the role they played in human disease.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=857.322,885.64"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I also believe the lab got involved in some horse transmissions of equine about that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=885.64,892.12"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it was interesting to find out the susceptibility of horses, because initially encephalitis was first seen as a disease of horses and then there would be spillover into man. And it was thought that perhaps humans got it from the horses. It later turned out that the horses were only an index, that they never developed sufficient viremia, sufficient level of virus in their blood to be carried by mosquitoes to humans, but that in the vicinity would be birds with higher titers that might possibly be the source, say, a mosquito infection and then a mosquito to man. So it was. We did find, however, that with venezuelan virus that horses could pick it up by contact. If you infected a horse with venezuelan wires, they put out enough of it in the saliva and in the respiratory tract so that contact from one horse to another would transmit this disease.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=892.12,972.352"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e This was by mosquito, of course, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=972.352,974.568"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That while mosquitoes could do that, it was also possible for contact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=974.568,979.608"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e For contact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=979.608,980.704"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e In other words, it was a contagious disease as well as a mosquito borne disease.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=980.704,986.37"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And I believe in 1952, things sort of warmed up. As far as polio, that was one of the bad years for polio, I believe, in this country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=986.37,997.722"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Well, yes, polio, of course, was a problem, had been a problem up until the time that salk develop the vaccine. We were, our laboratory was always heavily engaged in working with polio virus. We were fortunate enough to get a chinese physician, scientist doctor CP Lee, to come to Montgomery and to work with us. He had been successful in transmitting type three virus to mice up at this point, only one virus could be transmitted to mice. Otherwise you'd have to use monkeys or chimpanzees. The type two virus could readily go in mice, but types one and three did not. Lee was able, by intraspinal inoculation, to get type three in mice, and I brought him to Montgomery to try and do it with type one. And he and I worked together on this problem mostly. Of course, he did most of the, spent most of the time in the lab with it, since I had other administrative duties. But I would pop into the lab from time to time and occasionally talk over experiments and so on. Now he was able to get type three going, and then from that we were able to get it going by intracerebral. We had all three viruses transmitted by intracerebral injection, which are easier to do. So now we had a way of testing for all three viruses in mice instead of monkeys, a big difference in cost, because at that time, a mouse was four or $0.05 apiece, but a monkey was 15 or $20 a piece. But Lee did a lot of manipulating and was able to get the virus to lose its virulence from mice, and further manipulation and tissue culture back in mice through one root or another and so on. We're not sure exactly where or how it happened, but it happened that we now had a Taiwan virus that was no longer virulent for mice, no longer virulent for monkeys, no longer virulent for chimpanzees, but could grow in tissue culture so that we knew it was there. That virus, when fed by mouth, and he and I and several lab workers were the volunteers, we found it would multiply in the gut and we would excrete the virus for a period of time. We then went back again to chimpanzees and found no while it was multiplying the chimpanzee. And it did not infect the chimpanzees when inoculated into the nervous tissue. So we felt we had an avirulant strain that looked like it might be a good candidate for an oral vaccine. There had been others who had such strains, but not quite as avirulant. Cox and Koprowski, particularly, already had some human tests, but that virus still of sufficient virulence, neurovirulence, to be considered possibly dangerous. And, of course, with the accident with Schultz vaccine, the so called cutter accident, where some large numbers of children were paralyzed from taking the vaccine, one had to be very careful about going on with that type of thing with anorovaccine human. Well, the Qatar incident caused. Well, we were asked to stop working. We already had a human child ready.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=997.722,1241.458"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I participated in those, if you recall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1241.458,1243.89"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, but we were asked not to do that. I can understand their fear. And so we gave that strain to several other investigators, including Albert Sabin, by the way, the strain we gave was called LSC, L for Lee, S for Schaeffer, and we had four lines of the virus, four different variants, LSA, LSB, LS C, LSD. The LS C was the avirulant strain that we believe is now the so called Sabin strain. Although I regret to say that Sabin does not admit that this is a strain that he put into his vaccine, he claims to have given it some additional passages and that the strain he's using is different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1243.89,1302.63"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e That work was very interesting. I recall the intensity of the operation at that time in 1952, there were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1302.63,1312.978"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Exciting years, and regardless of who gets the credit, we are proud of the contribution we made in polio, by the way. We participated also in the vaccine trials, the salt vaccine trials, which were countrywide, and we took care of the southeast area, a portion of the southeastern area, which we did a good deal of the serologic work, virus isolations, and all the things that were necessary to contribute to the study, which was an excellent study. And, of course, Salk deserves a considerable amount of credit for carrying on this large study and carefully done study, which, without question, showed that that vaccine would protect. Now we have two good vaccines. There is the inactive salt type inactivated polio vaccine, which is injected, and the Sabin type, so called oral polio vaccine, which is given by mouth. Both have their place, and both have contributed to the eradication of polio in most of the western countries of the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1312.978,1390.18"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned the cutter vaccine problems with the contaminated caps. I believe that that resulted in some 75 cases of polio. But did we, did the laboratory in Montgomery participate in any of the work with that resulting from those cases?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1390.18,1412.98"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e We helped with the testing of specimens and so on that were necessary. It was not possible, to be sure, and we didn't have the technology to tell which strain of virus, whether it was a vaccine strain or a wild type virus. There was some question as to whether initially, whether these cases may have been coincidental, that a wild type virus was infecting the individual or happened to be vaccinated. But I don't think there was any, that there was virus in the vaccine inactivated. It was a technical error. I think there was a process of filtration prior to inactivation with formalin that was not carried through by the manufacturer, and this was later corrected. There have been no further problems with inactivated vaccine since that time, although I must say that with the oral vaccine, the live oral vaccine, there is an occasional individual who comes down with polio, particularly not so much the initial individual, but let's say a parent or a relative in the household of a child who's received the oral vaccine we shed now virus, which may become a little more virulent than it was initially, or it may be an individual with a very low immunocompetency that may not be able to keep the virus from getting into the nervous system. Everyone who takes the oral vaccine has the virus multiplying in their intestinal tract, but it doesn't get into the bloodstream, or if it does, it does not attack the nerve cells in the brain or cord but once in a while, one in 3 million or 8 million, figures vary, will come down. It's a small price to pay for the broad protection. However, that is still an undesirable effect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1412.98,1554.28"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e That's this polio like disease that you sometime assume also, or that you sometimes receive polio vaccine. I say the polio like diseases that sometimes show up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1554.28,1568.192"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, some of the cases said to be due to the vaccine are not, but it's hard for judges and juries to understand the technical aspects of that. And in many instances, awards for damages were given where it was clearly not due to a polio virus, but some other cause for the paralytic disease that ensued.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1568.192,1594.35"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think any discussion of Montgomery would be complete without discussion about the rabies work and the dogs that we had at Montgomery. You mentioned that a little bit earlier.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1594.35,1604.55"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e But, yes, the studies done, there were two veterinarians who were actually not members of our staff, but collaborated with members of our staff. That was Ernest Tierkell and Harry Rubin, who belonged to the. Who worked with Doctor Steele, who was the chief editor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1604.55,1630.49"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor James Steele.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1630.49,1631.466"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e James Steele. Right now, we provided the space there. We had lots of room. We were able to keep dogs for long periods of time. These studies required follow up on dogs vaccinated for several years. There were four groups. There were at that time available four types of rabies vaccine, and it was to determine which of these were the best. So Tirkle, initially with Rubin, and then he subsequently continued after Harry left and went to work with a famous virologist by the name of Stanley in California. Those facilities there made it possible to carry out this study in large numbers of dogs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1631.466,1684.95"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And Doctor Carl Habo, was he involved in those?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1684.95,1687.518"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Doctor Habel was also from NIH, was a virologist who had contributed a good deal to polio as well as rabies. As a matter of fact, I got Doctor Lee from Doctor Habel's laboratory. He had worked with Lee on the type three in mice. Type three polio. Habel was also interested, developed a so called Habel test for rabies, a method of evaluating the potency of a rabies vaccine. And he also. He was a collaborator with Tirkle and our group in these dog studies on vaccination of dogs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1687.518,1737.4"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe we also did a good bit of work. It seems like to me we received hundreds, thousands of psydicine birds or birds suspected of being having psittacosis at one time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1737.4,1748.642"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, there were lots of birds. Parakeets seemed to be very popular, and it was. They were harbored the a virus known as psittacosis. And psittacosis virus was transmitted by people who bought these parakeets or other citizen birds. And because of the widespread currents of cytoscosis in humans, in contact with birds that they had purchased, we were asked by the quarantine service of the public health service service to, since we had the space to keep these birds, to test them, of course, we found them loaded with virus. Eventually they had to be destroyed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1748.642,1808.94"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e This also came out in turkeys, I believe at some, the psittacosis came out in turkeys at some point in time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1808.94,1815.996"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. The same virus, when occurring in other birds, is called ornithosis, was called ornithosis virus, and it involved other birds, particularly turkeys. Yes. Some cases of this infection occurred in the people working in the processing of turkeys. And at one time we received, oh, I know, several hundred specimens of these to test, and we found not many, but occasional birds would be, were infected. This is a recurring problem from time to time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1815.996,1871.55"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned early on that one of the things that they were doing when you arrived at the laboratory in 49 was diagnostic testing. And I presume that continued in the entire field of virology during the period that you were there, Doctor Shapin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1871.55,1886.556"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e We were the, see, we were part of so called the Bureau of State Services. And one of the things that CDC did then and is still doing is to be available for help. When a state has a problem that it can't handle itself, it can call on CDC to help. Now, one of the ways in which we helped was to provide the diagnostic services for whether, regardless of the situation, whether it was an animal problem, human problem. And sometimes we'd even go in there and help with surveys. So this gave us, of course, an excellent knowledge of what was going on around the country. It provided services to the states so they could better handle their health problems, and to us also provided a tremendous amount of research material which enhanced our own knowledge and ability to deal with these problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1886.556,1958.146"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Some of these were completely unknown, weren't they, when you received them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1958.146,1962.05"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Very often we'd get specimens completely unknown. We try to get as much background information as possible so that we could go more directly to look for what may be the cause. Otherwise, you have to go through so many different procedures, and sometimes it's a fruitless approach. But we generally ended up by finding out what the problem was and providing reports. Unfortunately, it took a lot of time, sometimes weeks or months, before we could give the answers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1962.05,1998.91"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd like to mention just some words and let me get your comments or your reaction to some words that occurred as we lived in Montgomery. One of them was white mice, maybe the CFW strain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=1998.91,2012.63"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes. And when we began our work in those days, people just used mice or chickens or this or dogs without paying any attention to their genetic background. And so there would be so much variation from results from one place from another or the results from the same place at different times. There was a man at Rockefeller Institute by the name of Webster who decided to breed a genetically known strain, and they called him the Swiss Webster mouse. Then one acquaintance of mine who developed an animal production program commercially, and he called it Karworth Farms. They then went into this genetically known breeding and had a mouse called cf farm W. Webster. He received initially the breeders from Webster's laboratory at the Rockefeller. We then felt that we should buy these mice either from them or to get breeders from them and breed our own. We did a little bit of both. The big difference in the results, they were more uniform, more reproducible and more dependable. And of course, today nobody just works with any old mouse or any rat or any animal. There are today more is known about the genetics of the animals that are used or the cells that are used in tissue culture. In those days, it was rather haphazard. So we were right on the ball. We were right on top of things and went on with the newer, better ideas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2012.63,2132.756"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I recall that we bred at one time as much as 5000 white mice a week.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2132.756,2138.532"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes. We had a big need for them. We also bred monkeys, by the way. Inadvertently, we had needed a lot of monkeys for polio, and we found that they would breed pretty well in captivity. So we always had a good number of baby monkeys available. Today, of course, today the wild monkeys are now disappearing, and most of the monkey stock for research depends upon breeding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2138.532,2174.38"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e While we're talking about monkeys, the monkey tissue, monkey kidney cells.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2174.38,2181.62"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That was at that time a newly developing procedure for having large amounts of cells. The kidney of a monkey would be removed surgically. The monkey could be kept alive for the use of a second kidney. Much later, that kidney would be minced, and with the use of enzymes, the cells would be shaken and separated and layers, monolayers of those monkey kidney cells served as the cultures for many viruses. And of course, that helped a great deal, not only in diagnosis, but in research and virology. This was also a new technique that, and again, our laboratory was right on top of this new technology and using it very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2181.62,2235.25"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Another cell material was the hela cell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2235.25,2239.57"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Well, the Hela cell was a cell, sort of what they call an immortalized cell, a cell that continues multi dividing and dividing. And I it's really a cancer cell. And the name Hela came from the first two letters of a woman's name. Her first name was Helen, and the other LA for the last name. However, such cells could not be used for making vaccines because of the concern about the possibility of cancer. We use the normal cells in vaccine production, except for diploid cells, which are, which multiply. You can use diploid cells, you see the monolayer cell for monkey kidney. You only have one or two multiplications, and then that's finished. They have to go back for a fresh kidney. Diploid cells can be used for maybe 10, 15, 20 reproductions, and there are such cells from human sources that are used for vaccine production. But the monkey kidney cells would seem to be quite acceptable for vaccine production.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2239.57,2330.86"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e We also used a number of chimps at Montgomery.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2330.86,2336.26"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e The chimpanzees were necessary for the final stages, testing for neurovirulence in the live virus vaccine program, which we had. And so those chimps were there so we could determine the neurovirulence. Actually, we were so convinced that our type one was a virulent that we, some of us, had our own children vaccinated with our strain of LSC. Later, Sabin. When Sabin's vaccine came along, it was not until 19 60, 61 that that was finally licensed for use. Of course, that everyone began to give it to their children. But we had some young pioneers there that got live virus polio vaccine. Before that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2336.26,2391.52"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e We also used day old chicks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2391.52,2394.68"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, they were susceptible to the encephalitis viruses and were used in testing otherwise. Chicks were also used in the embryonic stage. We used chick embryos of different ages, seven day old or up to 14 day old, and the different viruses, or rickettsia, would grow in different portions of the embryo in the amniotic sac for influenza virus, in the yolk sac for rickettsial agents. And so we had a lot of fertile eggs incubating there. But for certain studies, we would let them hatch out the day old chicks who had a high susceptibility, and they were quite useful for studies of that sort.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2394.68,2452.57"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I also recall the very early model of the RCA electron microscope that we installed on there in the early fifties.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2452.57,2462.3"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That brings to mind a very important person whom we brought to Montgomery. His name was Charles Sheppard, and he was a rickettsiologist. We were so busy with virus work that we didn't have time to think about Rickettsia for a few years, but we thought about it, but we didn't do much about it until I found out that Charlie was available and I brought him. Now, we didn't have. I forget now, I couldn't justify bringing in someone for that purpose, but there was a need for somebody to study leprosy, and so he came in to study leprosy until we could get the Rickettsia work underway. Well, Rickettsia work got underway, but it was secondary to leprosy because that's another contribution that the Montgomery laboratory made with Charles shepherd and his very, very important advances that he made in trying to grow the leopard bacilli, first in Hela cells and other cultures, later in the foot. Then he grew them in the foot pads of mice. And of course, other studies subsequently, which he did here in Atlanta. But anyway, his pioneer work on leprosy began in Montgomery. He also, by the way, there was an israeli visiting scientist who came for a sabbatical year to work with us, and he worked both with Bob Kisling and Charlie Shepherdess. Bob Kisling, he developed the fluorescent antibody test for detecting rabies, the negro bodies, which are really little blobs of virus in a cell. He was able to apply the fluorescent antibody techniques for readily visualizing the rabies virus or the negro body. Before that, it required special staining ability. With staining techniques and knowing the cell microscopy and the cell structures and so forth, it require liquidity of training. Only a few people could do this well and reliably, but for us, anybody, they just made those little things shine. And if you did the thing right, there it was. And that technique, by the way, became the standard technique for Arabies diagnosis, both an animal and human arab fluorescence. That was Robert Goldwasser and Kissling. Now, Robert Goldwasser also worked with Shepp and doing some studies with Rickettsia, also using fluorescent antibody and other serological techniques. It was important to differentiate between the different strains of rickettsia, typhus, murine typhus, and epidemic typhus and other rickettsial strains. And so some modest contributions were made there with the rickettsial agents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2462.3,2664.74"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I recall a study seemed like to me, it was 1954, using. It was a polio study using monkeys and curare and using a respirator that we borrowed from them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2664.74,2675.484"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes, that was just sort of a little lark. I'll tell you how that happened. I had been down to Mexico. I was invited. They had a polio meeting, and I was invited down to talk about our work and I met a young mexican pharmacologist who wondered whether if you pack a relax the individual or an animal with polio paralysis, whether they might not have a better. Some chance of recovery. And he thought possibly curare would be the thing. Curare is a poison which the South American Indians used to use to paralyze their. Their opponents. They shot darts, and the curare would simply relax and musk completely. Of course, if you give enough of it, it also kills the individual, so it has to be carefully dosage. Well, anyway, I invited him to come to Montgomery to try out his experiments. And we had to build a special respirators or adapt respirators from monkeys so that we would have a monkey paralyzed with polio given cure, then follow through and so forth. It didn't work. But we had an interesting mexican scientist there for a while, and I thought I did something, at least for good international relations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2675.484,2783.65"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember your coming back from a meeting. I'm not sure where this meeting was. With a check made out to me for $100,000 from the National foundation of Infantile paralysis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2783.65,2795.61"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I sounded pretty generous. Yes, it was an interesting situation, I think. As you recall, I mentioned earlier that we helped with the salk vaccine studies. We contributed quite a bit to that in help and materials and so on. The polio foundation enlisted some a dozen or more laboratories around the country to work during those couple of years in which the Salk trials were going on. There was no way they could pay us for it. If they gave the money to the government, we're going to the general treasury and we'd lose that. So we thought the easiest thing to do would be to have a check made out to you. And then you could buy equipment, material and supplies to make up for what we contributed. We needed, badly, some deep freezers. We needed. We wanted a new IBM typewriter, which the government wouldn't let us buy. We hired some additional help, which we couldn't get because there were times when budgets got tight. So we felt, while perhaps it may have been a little irregular, but it was good with the good intentions and for the good of the service to accept that money and to enhance the capabilities of the laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2795.61,2895.756"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it worked to the benefit of the government.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2895.756,2899.692"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I'm sure. I'm very pleased with. There were times when we got impatient going through bureaucratic procedures and we sometimes, well, broke a little rule here or there. But as long there was no personal gain, that didn't bother me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2899.692,2921.77"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e What was the name of the gentleman that did a lot of the publicity work for the National foundation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2921.77,2928.354"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes, he was quite a character. His name was Basil O'Connor. He was a former law partner of President Roosevelt, who, you see, Roosevelt had polio. Most people know, and they used that. People, his friends used that to start raising money for polio research. It started as the president. Birthday balls, parties. When the president's birthday came around, they would have balls all around the country, and people would pay $100 or something to attend. That money was then used to provide research funds or treatment money. The original guy in charge of that was Paul Decreif, a famous microbiologist and author of, the author of Microbe Hunters. Later, when Basil O'Connor was brought in by the president, he and Paul decrepe didn't get along. One of them had to go. And, of course, it wasn't Basil. So the crief was out. And Basil really built that foundation for infantile paralysis up into a tremendous organization that supplied large amounts of money for research. They did a great deal of work to identify that there were three types of polio virus. They, of course, sponsored Salk's work and so on, and. And they also put the seed money up for the Clarence Salk Institute. They did a good job there, even though Basil may have been a bit of a dictator, but they accomplished their purpose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=2928.354,3039.13"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe you instituted a tradition in Montgomery known as the Journal Club for the Uninitiated. Would you explain that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3039.13,3048.7"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that was one of the highlights. People still. There are only a few people left to remember it. No, that was over 35 years ago. We started all of that, and some of our friends are no longer around, unfortunately. But my experience with journal clubs was that they sounded good and everybody wanted them, but they would never last. We would go to someone's home one evening a week or every other week and have coffee or tea and talk about current literature. Somehow or other, they soon fell apart and they were gone. Well, Arnold and I talked about that, and Earl suggested something, which I think was the key to it. Let's invite the gang in for a journal club meeting and provide a. A dinner. Well, before the dinner, there would be a drink or two later, we would have wine and we started a wine tasting. I'd bring some wines in, cover them with paper bags and put numbers on them. And most people didn't know very much about wine at that time. We were still pretty young in this. But anyway, that camaraderie, the food, the drink. By the way, it was necessary after a while to limit drinks to two nobody could drink more than two drinks because the meeting would get too lively. So we limited and we would have mostly social. But there was some discussion of journals and new things and of course our visitors who came through there, they happened to be there on a Thursday. It was every Thursday night from about six to eight. I think some of the men had an excuse for not coming home one night a week. And it worked out just beautifully.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3048.7,3173.294"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e As I recall, vistas made it a point to be there. And some of us became pretty good cooks as a result of the journal club.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3173.294,3178.966"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that's right. But after a while we got tired of cooking. So happened one of our animal attendants had worse worked on a Pullman as a cook. We now chipped in and paid him to do the cookings and cleaning and washing the dishes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3178.966,3193.792"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e That must have been after I left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3193.792,3196.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Because there was a problem all with who's going to do the dishes. And that was solved by bringing in professional help. But it was absolutely delightful to have the group and it helped build up that spirit, that so called Esperita corps that was rarely seen in many other places. As I say, that journal club had a marvelous reputation around the country and even internationally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3196.24,3229.11"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e We haven't talked a great deal about influenza, although we have. Although the work went on at the laboratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3229.11,3236.04"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I. In one. The. There was one area in which virology in which we. I felt we had not quite developed to the point that was necessary and that was the respiratory virus diseases, influenza. There were some new ones coming along. And it so happened that I methadore a young man by the name of Keith Jensen who had been working with Thomas Francis was the mister influenza in the US. He was at the School of Public Health in Michigan. I was able to induce Keith Jensen to come join us and we set up a new respiratory virus unit. And then I found an air force officer at Gardner Field. We didn't mention, I think, that our laboratory in Montgomery was outside of the city limits and adjacent to gunner Air Force Base. And many of us were commissioned officers. So we had an illegal gate between our little and the air force base to the officers club. We were able to put up our students for the courses. Would get. Would get. Would live in the bachelor's quarters for a dollar a night. They would have the club facilities available to them and on that basis we were able to make them come back evenings for evening work as well. Anyway, we got to meet a lot of the military. This was a kind of a medical orientation unit there. And we met a young lieutenant in the air force by the name of Rosalind Q. Robinson, who we got to join work with Keith Johnson in respiratory viruses. He did a superb job. And as you know, Robbie Robinson later became the director of the laboratories here in Atlanta. After our group moved, moved to Atlanta, I was fated to do other things. When the move to Atlanta came, we were preparing for it. In 1959, I had my arm twisted to go to New York, back to the city of New York health department as director of their public health laboratory program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3236.04,3393.68"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Let me mention a couple of names and get you to sort of react to them. Some people, employees we may or may not get a chance to interview. Doctor ScHaeffer, I believe you've mentioned Bob Kissling and Roy Chamberlain. But how about Mike Siegel?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3393.68,3409.016"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes, Mike Siegel was a virologist from Philadelphia. He was working with the Henleys, who are famous virologists. They are retired now. Mike was brought in to run the routine diagnostic laboratory. That was one area, and I always had trouble with that because nobody wanted to do routine virology. And so Mike was there with us for a couple of years, but he did a very good job of perking it up a bit. I started initially with another, a former Rockefeller foundation person, Thomas P. Hughes. But for somehow or other that didn't work out. Mike Siegel stayed two years. Then I had Seymour coulter. That didn't work out. And then we finally gave it to Andrew Fodor, who was a little bit more, what shall I say? A little bit more low keyed and willing to produce a service with glamour of the big research.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3409.016,3486.28"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Doctor Shaphite, I think we're about to run a little bit closer on time, and I do want to say some things before we close this out. I want to say how much I enjoyed working at the Montgomery station and how I think the work down there was of such importance to CDC and to the field of virology and how much we, how we very much appreciate the effort and the time, the 24 hours a day that so often that you put in to see that the job was well done. I thank you very much for coming to talk to us, and I hope we can continue this at some later date.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3486.28,3527.182"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, Jim, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed talking about a period of my life that I think was the greatest. It was the highlight of my career, and I'm proud of what we were able to do. I'm proud not so much only of what I did, but how well I, how well the people who work with me contributed, how dedicated they were and how enthusiastic and it was just one of these things that happens once in a lifetime. And I was very fortunate to have that experience. And I'm so pleased that other people see that as we did, that this was really a great thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3527.182,3577.208"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e We all benefit. Thank you, Doctor Schaeffer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3577.208,3579.28"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460#t=3579.28,3580.28"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132681/file/247460/transcript/68971/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/971/original/transcript_1765826029.vtt20251215-2593616-phscub.vtt20251215-2593616-phscub?1765826029","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/971/original/transcript_1765826029.vtt20251215-2593616-phscub.vtt20251215-2593616-phscub?1765826029"}]}]}]}