{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/gf0ms3mq7r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Stevens, Valerie"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["12859"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights, and literary property rights, have been transferred to the David J. Sencer CDC Museum","Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from the David J. Sencer CDC Museum."]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Valerie Stevens (Interviewee)","Mary Hilpertshauser (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-09-30 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["2022.800.026 (accession number)","OHCDCM800 (collection call number)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["COVID-19 Oral History and Memory Archive (is part of)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights, and literary property rights, have been transferred to the David J. Sencer CDC Museum","Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from the David J. Sencer CDC Museum."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/249/551/small/STEVENSVALERIE.jpg?1727840029","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 12859_valerie_stevens.mpga"]},"duration":7982.256,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/249/551/small/STEVENSVALERIE.jpg?1727840029","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-globalhealthchronicles.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/249/551/original/12859_valerie_stevens.mpga?1724662126","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":7982.256,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["content172466211420240826-2043719-lslvw7.xml [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Today is Friday, October 7, 2022, and this is Mary Hilpertshauser for the\nCOVID-19 Oral History and Memory Archive Project. I’m in Atlanta, Georgia at the\nCenters for Disease Control and Prevention Headquarters in the CDC [Centers for\nDisease Control and Prevention] Library. I’ll be talking to Valerie Stevens, and\nwe’ve one pre-interview before today. Valerie, do I have your permission to\ninterview you and record this session?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: You do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, well thank you for that. For the record, can I ask you to say, my name\nis, then state your full name and then tell me what your current position is at CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Sure, my name is Valerie Stevens. I’m currently a microbiologist here\nin NCEZID’s [National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases] DHQP\n[Division of Healthcare Quality Promotion], Clinical Environmental Microbiology\nBranch Outbreak Response Lab.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: What is DHQP?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: DHQP is the Division of Healthcare Quality Programs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Promotion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Promotion, promotion. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so before we delve into the details, your path to getting here at CDC,\nand of course COVID, tell me a little bit about your family background and the\ncommunity you grew up in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I grew up in the metropolitan Atlanta area, Marietta, Georgia. I am the\nsecond of six children. I am first generation college, and I knew from a young\nage I wanted to do healthcare in some capacity, and I found I really liked\nscience— I really excelled at it. I was lucky enough to go to a high school that\nis now a science magnet school and they let me skip a lot of English grammar\nclasses and take extra science. And then from there I went to Georgia Tech, and\nI was in their Applied Biology Pilot Bioengineering Program and Cooperative\nProgram. I had to work three jobs to pay my way through school. There was no\nmoney in my family for college, but it was something that I wanted to do. I was\nlucky enough that Georgia Tech had that kind of co-op program, and a co-op\nprogram is where if you’re in the top ten percent of your class, they would let\nyou go to school a quarter, work a quarter, go to school a quarter, work a\nquarter. I worked for Georgia’s Department of Natural Resources in the\nEnvironmental Protection Division Water Quality Program, and I went around the\nstate testing water as a scientist, and doing macroinvertebrate sampling and\nprofiling which tells long-term stream quality based on the bugs, basically,\nthat live in the water. I was lucky, all of my jobs, except for working for\nDisney as one of those extra jobs to pay for school, have been in science. I’ve\nbeen a scientist for a very long time, and the skills have layered upon\nthemselves and given me a good depth of knowledge that helps me be able to\nrespond to these really strange situations we find ourselves in at CDC, and in\nparticular, in a full-time outbreak lab.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=0.0,1.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I graduated from Georgia Tech, I took a job in science, and it was a food\nquality job. My husband at the time also played soccer, and by happenstance, Dr.\nScott [F.] Dowell, he was one of the first doctors to do an Ebola outbreak, I\njust knew of Scott, and I guess as we got to know each other, he was like, you\nknow what, I have something at work I think you would be a good fit for, and I\ndidn’t know where he worked. I always wanted to work at CDC. He’s like, oh I\nwork at CDC in atypical bacteria respiratory disease, and I’m like, I want in. I\nstarted out as an ORISE [Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education] which is\na kind of fellowship for recent graduates. It’s, I took a fifty percent pay cut\nbecause I really wanted to do the work, and I really wanted to work here, and I\nwanted to work here from the day in medical and bacteriology lab when they\nshowed a Nova special about the Brazilian purpuric fever outbreak. I walked out\nof that class changed, and I was like, okay, I don’t want to be a doctor, that\nwas what I thought I wanted to be. I want to be an outbreak investigator. This\nis a challenge, this is cool. That’s a pretty far shot when you don’t have, you\nknow it’s there, you know there’s a couple people in the world that do it. That\nwas now my new goal, and it was a strange little twist that this soccer friend\nhad an in at CDC, and what was even more interesting is that when I got here,\none of the PIs [principal investigators] I worked for, when I told her this\nstory, Dr. [M.] Lucia Tondella, she was actually one of two people who in that\nspecial, her and her husband Leonard [W.] Mayer, they met on that outbreak. By\nsome strange twist of fate, when I told her this story, she was like, oh that\nwas me and Leonard in the Nova special. I went back and watched it, and my mouth\ndropped open. Yes, CDC’s a big, small place. When you’re in the labs, I really,\nI see the same faces for like almost twenty-plus years now. It’s a big place,\nbut it’s kind of small in a strange way, we all kind of know each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=1.0,2.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: I think a lot of people within the laboratory system knows a lot of each\nother. I don’t think a lot of the communications people know a lot of the\nlaboratory people. There are these separate nests, or we like to call them\nsilos. I like to call them nests, but you have this group of people and they’re\nvery tight. I think there should be some more cross-pollination.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=2.0,2.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: That’s what I noticed when I started here too, is that the lab people,\nas you say, the lab people and the EIS [Epidemic Intelligence Service] officers\nthat we would work with, especially on outbreaks, sometimes we had different\npriorities, and where I was a young person and willing to be flexible, I was\nkind of steered in the direction of, no, don’t give them everything they want,\nbecause then they’ll make us work all weekend. Yes, I think there needs to be\nmore blending of these cultures, and they are definite cultures and groups,\nalmost cliques. Some people are good at bridging those, and other groups are\nless willing to bridge. That is a challenge here at CDC sometimes is, groups\nunderstanding the challenges of each other, looking at the challenges of an EIS\nofficer, what people are asking them for, and trying to understand that, versus\njust saying no because you feel they don’t understand the challenges in the lab.\nThat is something we’re always trying to work on, especially in the lab I am now\nbecause we work so closely with public health departments and these EIS\nofficers. They do things that make us crazy, but we just have to try to take a\nstep back and understand why they’re doing it. I think things are getting better\nin that respect, or at least this group is better. Yes, there are these silos at\nCDC that need some cross-understanding, and what’s been helpful for our group is\nevery year we have the EIS officers spend a week with us. While it doesn’t fix\neverything, it does help them understand the demands in the lab, and when I was\ndeployed, and we’ll get to that, I learned a lot more about the demands that are\non the clinicians and the doctors who are out in the field. It gives me more\nunderstanding to why they might send me something as a lab person, I’m going,\nwhat is this? I can’t do anything with this. It helps to understand where\nthey’re coming from, so yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=2.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so after your education, you were this microbiologist at CDC, and now\nwe know how you got there. CDC’s public health, did you know that CDC was public\nhealth, or are you just looking at the lab section of it all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=3.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I was honestly just looking at it from, ooh, outbreaks, lab, I like\nthat, I’m good at that. Actually, when I was younger, you know, and trying to\nstruggle to find who I was in the world, I wondered if public health was really\nfor me, because sometimes I didn’t have the same perspective on things. That’s\nwhen, for some personal reasons, I needed to go make more money, and I left CDC,\nand I went into the private industry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=3.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: When did that happen? You were a microbiologist here—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=3.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: In 2006. In 2006, I had been here, I had been married, I had a\ndaughter, I got divorced. There’s a lot of personal things that happened here.\nThen I just had to make a choice at a certain point, and I decided to leave, and\nI went to go work for Johnson \u0026amp; Johnson’s pharmaceutical division, Janssen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=3.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Compare that kind of work with what you were doing at CDC and how the lab was\nset up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=3.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: What was really shocking for me as here at CDC we’re always thinking.\nWe’re always thinking, does it make sense what we’re doing for the question that\nwe’re being asked? Science is always leading— science is always leading. With as\nmany flaws as the system, as the federal agency has, the science always led the\nway. In industry, the lawyer leads the way. The science, it takes a back seat to\nwhat makes sense. That’s where I butted heads quite a bit with Johnson \u0026amp;\nJohnson people. First of all, supervisor knew less science than me so that was\nkind of challenging for me. The reports I would give, she didn’t understand. She\nwould constantly ask me “dumb it down.” I’m like, I’ve dumbed it down as far as\nI can dumb it down. They’re doing protocols that make no scientific sense,\nbecause the regulatory agency, FDA [Food and Drug Administration], or DEA [Drug\nEnforcement Administration] tells them to do it. For me, that was really\ndifficult, and where I learned the difference between a scientist and a tech.\nBecause when I went there, I was their lead microbiologist. People in the lab\nwere doing things technically wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=3.0,4.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had to argue with them, and show them the textbooks, what they were doing\nwrong. I was explaining when I was telling, this is why you do it this way. They\nstopped me, and said, no, you think, we do. I’m like, don’t you want to\nunderstand why so you can troubleshoot? They literally said to me, no, that’s\nyour job. When I went and questioned this, yes, that’s the difference between a\nquality control technician and a scientist in that world. I spent most of my\ndays signing papers, reading regulatory rules that I disagreed with\nscientifically, felt that if you’re only testing for five microorganisms in the\nvast world of things that can make you sick, this makes no sense. I was always\njust kind of fighting an uphill battle because I was trying to push science, and\nthey were pushing regulations, and that was the breaking point. That and ethics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=4.0,4.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When you’re dealing with a company like Johnson \u0026amp; Johnson, you get paid on\nmetrics, or your bonus, rather, is on metrics. The metrics are how fast you sign\na paper, or just things to me that as a scientist kind of killed my spirit. When\nI wasn’t doing something that was going to help somebody’s health improve, it\nwas just so Johnson \u0026amp; Johnson didn’t end up in a newspaper, it was just soul-crushing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=4.0,4.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then in these big quarterly meetings with the higher-ups, they would make jokes\nthat were hurtful to my soul where this company subsidiary was called Noramco,\nand they made eighty percent of the narcotics in the United States. I didn’t\nknow that when I took the job, it was interesting little twist. They do, and\nthey were making jokes about how to make oxycodone, hydrocodone, and\nbuprenorphine, they’re like, we’ll get you hooked, we’ll get you better, we’ll\nget you hooked again, literally saying this in meetings, and it was just like, I\ndidn’t want to be part of it anymore. I felt a little trapped because I needed a\njob, a single mother at this point. That plus some flat out lies where my\nhigher-up was concerned that because we didn’t have many macrobiological\ncontaminations, that we would be made redundant. She started making up problems\nthat didn’t exist. This was my name on it, not hers, if FDA comes and does\nreports. I took documentation of all this, took it to her HR [human resources],\nthey did nothing, and suddenly my life was becoming extremely difficult for my\nboss, so I chose to leave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=4.0,5.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I left and I went to a great company, super nice people, boring job. Indorama\nVentures in Covington, and they make textiles. They basically make three\ndifferent plastics of different coatings. Really all you were looking for was\nmold contamination. I set them up a nice lab, wrote them all protocols, and kept\nlooking for another job. That’s when I found a contracting job opened up here,\nand as things happened, they were looking for the skills I had acquired from\nJohnson \u0026amp; Johnson and being in industry. Putting it all together, came back\nhere as a contractor in 2014, ish, and started out in surveillance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=5.0,5.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What we were doing was we were looking at resistance patterns for microbes,\nthings that are resistant to different drugs, IV [intravenous therapy] testing,\nhundreds of samples from around the country, and looking to see if there was any\nspikes or trends that sent a signal that we needed something. Well as things\nwent on, because I had this depth of skills in microbiology at this point, I had\nfood micro, textiles, pharma, so I did FDA, I knew all these different, crazy\nthings. I kept getting borrowed by the outbreak department. They would have an\noutbreak where the hospital was saying, maybe it’s this pharmaceutical. No one\nknew how to test pharmaceuticals. Well Valerie does. I got borrowed and borrowed\nand borrowed, until one day in a big branch meeting, I found out along with\neverybody else that I had to move into outbreak. That was one of those little\nmanagement snafus where I’m sitting there, a whole room of fifty people turn\naround and look at me, I’m like, I don’t know what just happened. I had to ask\nafter the meeting, what happened? I got moved to outbreak, I want to say, four\nor five years ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=5.0,6.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: This is the outbreak response laboratory?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=6.0,6.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, same branch, it’s still the Clinical Environmental Microbiology\nBranch, and what they do is they work with healthcare facilities, when they have\noutbreaks. There’s typically NICUs [Neonatal Intensive Care Units] and PICUs\n[Pediatric Intensive Care Units], and highly resistant infections like MRSA\n[methicillin-resistant\u0026nbsp;Staphylococcus aureus], we see a lot of Pseudomonas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=6.0,6.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had been working with organisms, these gram-negative or gut bacteria.\nActually, bacteria are strange, right? They have this neat ability to pick up\nextra pieces of DNA [deoxyribonucleic acid], they’re called plasmids. If a\nbacterium gets enough what we call selective pressure put on it, which is kind\nof like, think of it, when you get sick, and you get prescribed antibiotics,\nthose microbes that are making you sick are not exactly the same. Some of them\nare going to have a weakness that the anti-microbial is going to take advantage\nof and kill, and some of them learn to pick up and change their DNA just\nslightly so they can avoid that. If you don’t finish your antibiotics, you kill\nthe weak ones and you let the mutants survive. They multiply up to big\npopulations, and then you can pass it on to somebody else. Now, that person has\nthe same infection, but now the drug won’t work. Those are the type of things\nthat we’re always looking for and see in the, we’re looking for the\npan-resistant infection. Putting all of my stuff together, I know how to work\nwith highly resistant infections, and through the hospital pharma stuff. I just\ngot “voluntold” into outbreak. Right now, my job is, we’ll get a weird\nsituation, and I hear it, I listen to the EIS officers talk about what’s going\non, and I just have to make up a protocol scientifically that will answer that\nparticular question. Every day is something different. I can think I’m coming\nhere and doing XYZ, and I do ABC. That’s why I love the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=6.0,7.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is what is so different in industry. Industry I could tell you what I’m\ndoing on a Tuesday at 2PM, and it’s scientifically not a challenge, as much as I\nreally like the people at Indorama, they were nice people, good people. Boring\nfor me, and I’ve learned a scientist, you either are a scientist or a\ntechnician. I didn’t know that existed when I first started at CDC. I thought\neverybody was a scientist who wanted to know. Nope, not everybody who puts a lab\njacket on knows why they’re doing something. That’s what makes CDC so different\nthan I would say the vast majority of scientists who are out there calling\nthemselves scientists. They’re not really doing science— they’re performing a\ntask, a technical task. They don’t know why, if something went wrong, I wouldn’t\nknow how to troubleshoot it. That’s what was so neat about my education at\nGeorgia Tech, they did not ever just want you to do, they wanted you to know\nwhy. Our tests were never ABC or multiple choice, it was, here’s a problem, fix\nit. It teaches you to think that way, and I learned after going in industry, I\nliked that— I’m good at that. Now I’m pretty much in what I would consider my\ngolden ticket job. I have bad days. I have people that make me roll my eyes\ndaily. The work is really interesting, and the neat thing is, you know you’re\nhelping somebody. You know everything you’re doing, at least you’re giving them\nan answer. We end up giving facilities who have struggled with, like a burn unit\nwho struggled for two years on why they had an Acinetobacter baumannii\nconsistent infection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=7.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You’re going to have to spell that later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay. You know, when we hear these stories, it’s very easy. We usually\ncan go right in there and tell them, it’s here, here, here, this is what you’re\ndoing wrong, here’s your remediation. The problem we have is not the science.\nJust like COVID, it’s not the science. It’s getting the people to buy into the\nscience and to follow it through correctly. That requires people to trust us,\nand to be willing to try and understand the science.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Which is a great segue into COVID, before we get to COVID, I really want to\nhave you explain some of the outbreaks that you have worked on. I know that\nearly on that you worked with Legionella.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Maybe some anthrax?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Maybe SARS [severe acute respiratory syndrome]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so pick one of those, or all three. Tell me how those went down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay, so when I first started here in ’97, I was in atypical bacterial\nrespiratory disease branch, which was then NCID [National Center for Infectious\nDisease], I think it’s NCIRD [National Center for Immunization and Respiratory\nDisease] now, right? They did atypical causes of pneumonia that were bacterial\nin nature. Started with chlamydia, everybody takes a giant step back when you\ntell them you work with chlamydia. There are three types of chlamydia— two are\nrespiratory. One, most people have had, and they don’t know they had it, it’s\nlike a bronchitis. The other one is called psittacosis— it’s a leading cause of\npeople to have spontaneous abortions, it’s very dangerous, and it’s through\nbirds, typically, they also call it parrot fever, it’s not very typical in the\nUnited States because the USDA [United States Department of Agriculture] looks\nout for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then there’s Legionella and Mycoplasma. What these all in common is they don’t\nhave the same vulnerabilities that most organisms that cause pneumonia have, and\nso those drugs don’t work on them. Chlamydia used to be considered a virus\nbecause it doesn’t have a cell wall and things like a bacteria does, so that the\nonly drugs we have for them are macrolides which only basically freeze the\nmicrobe, don’t let it replicate, they’re called static drugs, and they allow\nyour immune system to catch up. Same thing for Mycoplasma, no cell wall.\nLegionella’s a little different too, it doesn’t have the same vulnerabilities,\nand it uses Zithromax, another macrolide. All of these are strange reasons for\nsomebody to have pneumonia, and by the time it came to that, it was kind of like\na dumping ground, the doctors were like, we don’t know, what do we give this\nperson? We would do a combination of different testing things, and then of\ncourse there’s Legionella outbreaks, and that’s one of my favorite stations over\nin the museum is to tell people some of the little secret things about working\nin the Legionella lab that we’ve learned over time, and that you’ll find\nLegionella in your house— you’ll find it everywhere. The reason you don’t have\nas much Legionella disease is that when Legionella gets cranky, and it’s not\nliking its little biofilm home that it makes on pipes, is it’ll actually turn on\na gene called the flaA [flagellin] gene to grow a tail, and it runs away from\nhome. When it’s mobile, when it’s in that mobile phase, that’s when it can make\nyou sick, that’s the only time it can make you sick. That’s why you don’t have\nas much, and that’s why we can come up with remediations by keeping that biofilm\ncontrolled, it won’t be starved for nutrients and decide it needs to run away\nand find a new home. There are these funny things that you learn from outbreaks\nby being very observant and seeing what’s different in these microbes. Now that\nwe have a lot more tools for whole-genome sequencing and looking at the actual\ngenes, we learn these things like oh, it’s turned on a gene it didn’t have on\nbefore, what’s it doing when it turns on that gene? It grows a tail? Why does it\nneed a tail? It’s going to go somewhere else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=8.0,9.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s what’s so fun about it, is you know you’re helping people directly in the\noutbreak. Then you’re gleaning information from them that you can use to help\nprevent another outbreak. There’s the disease control, and then the prevention\npart. I started out in that, doing those outbreaks. Again, it was the same\nsystem, they saw me working in chlamydia, they saw I really like outbreaks,\nnobody else wanted to work on the weekend, and so I was in Legionella. I got\nvolunteered into Legionella and did the outbreaks, which is what I always wanted\nto do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=9.0,9.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are a lot of changes I would say in the lab from then. The campus is\ncompletely different now than it was in ’97. In ’97, any Joe Schmo off the\nstreet could walk right in the Building 1, you needed no clearance, you just\nwaved hi to the guard. We’ve always had our fair share of science deniers who\nare angry, and I’ve never really understood why, other than I think they have\nfallen for some charlatans who try to give them a reason why they have something\nchallenging in their life, or a child who’s got challenges in their life. It’s\neasier to blame somebody else and to look at your own genetics and go, wow, that\none just came up difficult. I actually have had somebody jump out at my car, I\nhad a red Saturn back in the ‘90s, jump out at my car dressed as the grim\nreaper. I’ll never forget, he just banged on my windshield. There were no guard\nstations when you first drove in, you just drove in and parked. That was a\nlittle concerning. I appreciate now that we have these safeguards to keep the\npeople who are angry at us, away. I never speak directly to them because I don’t\nthink it’s helpful. Plus, there’s a CDC policy that we’re not supposed to. It’s\nnot that we have anything secret. I think that’s important for people to know,\neverything I do in the lab, every single thing I do, every single email I send,\nthey can look at it, it’s Freedom of Information Act [FOIA]. They just have to\nask for it, no one’s hiding anything. We don’t speak directly to the public\nbecause we’re just not trained in how to make it understandable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=9.0,10.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is one of the biggest challenges we have in the lab is we forget how much\nscience we know. Sometimes when we’re just babbling off to each other, I’ve had\npeople tell me, it’s like you’re speaking a different language. To me it's very\nclear. Our communications people are the ones that, I call them the translators,\nand the normal people are the scientists, so they can kind of make sense,\nbecause science is not where you can take a little piece of information. There’s\nalways context around it. That was one of the big communication snafus in COVID,\nin my opinion. Back then, we had no real security on campus— that has been improved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=10.0,10.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of the horror stories, I want to go and put it on record, is when I started\nas the ORISE, I was the grunt. Go clean the fridge out, grunt! No problem. I\nwent into a walk-in fridge that had all these water samples from Legionella\noutbreaks, et cetera. I’m cleaning out, cleaning out. Then I find this little,\ntiny vial full of old blood that was kind of oozing out the top, because anyway.\nIf you don’t prep blood properly, it’s not going to stay in the tube— it’s going\nto expand. I turned it on its side, and it said – Yersinia pestis, and if you\ndon’t know, that is black plague. I dropped it in the autoclave bag, changed my\ngloves, and went to go sit down for a little while. I just reminded myself,\nremember where you are. I taught that to every person who’s coming after me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=10.0,10.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sometimes we’re so complacent with, I work with stuff that can kill the\nhealthiest person in a minute, every day. I’m not that great, but I’m very, very\ncareful. I don’t think I’m smarter than anybody else, but I think I’m very\nmindful of what I’m doing. I struggle sometimes with some people who get a\nlittle complacent. It’s very important you always stop and remember what you’re\nworking with. This is the CDC, we do have some extremely dangerous organisms,\nand we do need to study them, but you need to slow down. That’s important to\nslow down, remember where you are. That story of finding the black plague is\nkind of what I tell people, well we have a lot more biosecurity now. Now if you\ntried to do something like that, like when I went to Building 15 to go put stuff\nin the deep-freeze, there are cameras following me. There’s a lot of security\nnow. It’s still important to remember what we work and stop, slow down, and just\nremember how dangerous this is and be careful. Safety people have put a lot of\nthings in place to kind of like dummy-proof. It’s still ultimately up to the\nscientists and human to remember where you are, slow down, it’s important, it\ndoesn’t need to get out of here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=10.0,11.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Why was there black plague in there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=11.0,11.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: What happened was I told my then supervisor, Dr. [Barry S.] Fields, and\nhe goes oh, we used to work with that. They sent that out to Fort Collins,\n[Colorado] just throw it away. It used to be in the atypical respiratory branch,\nI guess they consider plague atypical. All that stuff is now considered insect\nvector-borne and was transferred out to Fort Collins who handles that. It was\nliterally just sloppiness— it was just lab sloppiness. I still deal with some of\nthat today, we do have a lot more things in place. We have a whole quality\nsystem now. Back when I started, we didn’t have written protocols. Nope, I had a\nnotebook that I handwrote everything in, I still have that notebook. That was\nhow you were taught. There was a PI [principal investigator] there, and you took\nnotes. Now we have written protocols that we follow, just like in industry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=11.0,11.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: It sounds like it was very academic run.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=11.0,11.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: It was very, as soon as he’s gone through this culture thing, I think\nas the people who were here in the very beginning, and they built those labs up\nthere, they were smart people, but they weren’t trained in the rigor of SOPs\n[standard operating practices], things that I learned in industry. Now again,\nI’ve taken the industry, okay, I know how to do an SOP and write point one, two,\nthree, four, five, here, send it, you know, all of that stuff. They were just so\nused to, this is how we do it, that they’re resistant to, I don’t want to have\nto write everything down, I already know what I’m doing. As they retired, the\nnewer people were just kind of like bringing that culture. CDC’s definitely\nmoving in the right direction. It still has a ways to go. But it’s just, again,\nslow down, remember where you are, it’s important that you do things correctly\nand be careful. Writing it down and having SOPs is just part of that. It’s a\nculture of change, it’s the older people who were here maybe when CDC first\nstarted, as they retire and we bring in new people, it's important to teach them\nthings correctly. But it is, it’s a change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=11.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Tell me what it’s like to work on an outbreak when you were deployed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay, so yes, during COVID—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Before we get to COVID.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay, which outbreak? The first SARS?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Yes, SARS, the first SARS, 2003 we’re talking about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: 2003, I had a young daughter at the time, but they brought me back,\nbecause we would get just hundreds of blood samples.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How do you get hundreds of blood samples? How are they sent?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: So, they get sent here through, they used to call it the DASH [Data\nand\u0026nbsp;Specimen\u0026nbsp;Handling] system, data, handling, specimen handling. Now\nit’s called STATTs, Specimen Triage and Tracking [Team], I think is what they\ncall it. Everything goes into the loading docks here at CDC. They have these\ndifferent departments, so now I’m in Unit 154, that’s the highly resistant\ninfections outbreak, Legionella would be another one, like 18, or I’m just\nguessing numbers. Everything that’s submitted from the state public health\nsystem, so things to come to get tested for CDC have to go through the state,\nunless it’s a very specific situation. Most of the time, things will come in\nfrom the state public health, states have first jurisdiction on what’s going on\nin their state. When they decide they can’t do it, they need help, X, Y, Z, they\nknow how to submit things through STATT to the right unit here at CDC, so they\nknow, okay, Legionella’s unit X, resistant infections are Y. They send it in a\nSTATT to that unit, STATT takes it, makes sure things are packaged correctly,\nlogs it in to our LIMS [Laboratory Information Management System] system, and\nLIMS is a type of lab information system, it’s like a big database. It’s a way\nthat we can track cradle-to-grave. Something came in, what unit to go to, what\ntests were done, results reported out as this big database. It goes into STATT,\nwe get a notice on STATT, a package to pick up. We go to pick it up in Building\n18, you go, the lab buildings are in the core of this campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=12.0,13.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The way the new campus has been designed is the labs that have the things you\ndon’t want to get out are in the middle. Then we have administration buildings\naround us. When specimens come in, they come in through the loading dock. The\nloading dock is underground, kind of backs, and it goes underground, goes\nthrough underground tunnels that are protected, and then up into the building,\nthen we transport things only underground. Once it comes in here, it is in this\ncore lab triangle basically, transported underground, so no terrorists can come\nand grab things, and then back up into the labs. All the labs have reverse air\npressure, so if you, you know when you open a door, don’t let the air\nconditioning out, type thing. Ours are reverse engineered. Everything in the\nlab, if you open the door, air’s rushing in. Then we’re working in these\ncontainment hoods where the air then goes up through several HEPA [high\nefficiency particulate air] filters and then a furnace and then vented out.\nEverything here goes in, kind of like a vacuum. Even the airborne microbes, if\nthey were to escape what our normal control would be, they’re still going to get\ncaptured, there’s no way for them to get out because the air pressure is\nreverse, and they have these indicators on each door. If that indicator is not\nblowing in, we don’t work. I’ve had those days where the air’s down. We don’t\ntouch anything because it’s just part of our safety protocols now. When things\ncome in, that’s how they get tested, then they get sent out to different labs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=13.0,14.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There’s only, as I understand it, two full-time outbreak labs here. There are\nthe resistant infections healthcare-associated, that’s us, and then there’s the\nfoodborne. We do tend to work together quite a bit and cross over. Other than\nthat, most labs are like specialist labs, like I was in Legionella. There’s\ndoing a lot of research surveillance, and they deal with outbreaks as they pop\nup. Again, the protocol is, for the state to have given up, and then they make a\npanic call, it’s always Friday in the afternoon before holiday, so I’m expecting\nsomething to happen today. They basically wait until the last minute and they—\nwe need help. Yes, that’s kind of the system to get something in here. I would\nlove to have people just send me stuff, you know, something interesting, but\nbecause of the way we’re funded, we have to go through the protocol of, it’s got\nto be approved by the state— the state sends it to us. Anything the state sends\nus, we’re like fine, no problem. If a private facility is having a problem,\nthey’ve still got to involve the state and get their okay, or our EIS officers\nwill be dispatched out there for what they call an Epi-Aid [epidemiologic\nassistance]. Again, the state is in control. They have first jurisdiction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=14.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so if I like to find something growing in my backyard, I have to call—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=15.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: The state.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=15.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: —the state, and then the state, if they don’t understand what’s growing in my\nbackground, they’ll go to you guys?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=15.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=15.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay. It’s the same thing we work internationally too, you have to go through\nthe ministry of health. Somebody in Uganda finds something growing in their\nbackyard, they have to go through their ministry of health, or through their\nthing, and then maybe call us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=15.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, so the one thing that’s frustrating at times is we don’t have\npower. We have very, very limited situations where we have the law, the Code of\nFederal Regulations, the CFRs backing anything we want to do. We are public\nhealth, we say pretty please, this is the best thing for you. In outbreak\nsituations, we can go in there, we can show them where it is, we can find it, we\ncan give our remediations. We can’t make them do it. Sometimes that works for\nus. Sometimes when these facilities are in the middle of like lawsuit, they will\nnot let FDA in, but they’ll let us in because we’re not regulatory. We’re not\ngoing to get them in trouble— we’re just going to try to help them. It’s a plus\nand minus kind of thing, you know. It can be a little frustrating. Most of the\ntime people do want to do the right thing, they just don’t want to get in\ntrouble with the lawyer. I did find this to be a giant negative during the\npandemic. It’s like, the outbreak rhythm is the same. When I saw it coming over,\nI knew it was going to go one of two ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=15.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You’re talking about COVID?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I don’t want to talk about COVID now, but I mean—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Why don’t you talk about COVID now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Outbreaks have a rhythm. You could see it, it’s very clear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You can see it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I can see it, and I know it’s going to happen if I do this, I know it’s\ngoing to happen if I do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Let’s stop right here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How did you start hearing about COVID? Before it was even called COVID, it\nwas called something else in Wuhan. Do all labs know each other really well, in\nthe world? Is there a laboratory—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: No, that’s not true. I actually found out about it the same way you\nguys did, from the news. I didn’t hear any—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: News?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Nope, heard about it on the news. Heard a lot of things first on the\nnews, to be honest. There’s not a lot held back here. I know, Dr. Schuchat, Dr.\nAnne Schuchat, who was our acting agency lead I think at the beginning, she’s\nactually the one that technically hired me here. She was the branch chief of\nDBMD [Division of Bacterial Disease Mycotic Diseases] when I started back in\n’97. Back then, again, the culture was different, and we knew each other really\nwell. She came to my sorority house and had dinner. She’s a nice lady, but she\nalways had science lead the way, so I had a lot of faith in her. They had early\nconversations because they see the signals coming in. We have a surveillance\nsystem here, when people go to the doctor, and you’re diagnosed with something,\nright, there’s codes. Some diseases are what we call reportable, and so you get\nthis little blip on the database. Well, there’s a normal amount of flu cases in\nan October, that’s, you know. These databases, these monitoring databases watch\nfor aberrations. We know certain fluctuations, you know, flu’s going to go up\nstarting in October, peak in February. We also know there’s a certain baseline\nof bronchitis, pertussis, all these things that we watch for. Yes, there was an\naberration showing up in China.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=16.0,17.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now the problem was, China is a little more complicated I think than people\nrealize. Back in 2003 when we had that first SARS outbreak, and we had these\nhundreds of samples and stuff coming over, and we were finding what the\ncausative agent was, and we found that it was a virus, not a bacteria, and it\nwas a coronavirus. I remember back then, I was talking about this going, if this\never was to mutate such that it was more contagious and it got out, this would\nbe bad, really bad. There were recommendations, again, just recommendations,\ngiven to China from us, based on what we can postulate, this is how it happened,\nand these are the recommendations, and they were supposed to make changes on\nthese wet markets, and holding the line to illegal wildlife importation knowing\nthat there was a high risk that this can mutate and become human-to-human\ntransmission. Well because WHO [World Health Organization] is then charge based\non giving recommendations, and countries take them. Then there were some\nsections and some recommendations put on China, and they didn’t follow them.\nThere was no enforcement, and they ended up allowing these wet markets, again,\nbecause the extreme elite in China would go, and want these products, and they\njust, kind of just turned a blind eye. It happened, exactly what we said was\ngoing to happen, happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=17.0,18.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What I learned about it, I was like, well this is bad, this is bad. If, I was\nwatching it for a while going, okay, I’m going to just watch it, because we have\nto rely on them to be honest with us. We can’t go in there. At that point, our\nstaff that’s oversees, as I have understood it, have been greatly reduced, from\nlike fifteen to a small number, I don’t know the deal over there, just know\nthey’ve been reduced. We don’t have eyes on the situation, we have to rely on\nthem. Well, this was a great embarrassment, plus they had broken the rules that\nthey were supposed to stick to from the first SARS. A totalitarian government,\nand I’m watching it escape them, I’m like, okay, here it comes, you know. I told\nmy family, I told my friends, okay. If you hear one case, it’s already too late,\nbecause that’s two weeks after they got it, they’ve spread it everywhere. If it\ncomes in and they don’t put stops on travel right now, which we’ve always said,\nthere’s no such thing as a closed border. You just can’t do that— microbes don’t\nneed a passport. That’s why you have to communicate and cooperate with other\ncountries that maybe we don’t have the best relationships with, but people are\npeople and microbes don’t care about nationality or what your politics are. Yes,\nonce it got out of a totalitarian government, I knew this was going to be bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=18.0,19.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When people decided, they didn’t want to listen to how to protect themselves and\nclose down, I had to be honest with my family, I said, well it’s either going to\nbe three months or two-and-a-half years, because it’s either going to be get\ncontained, or it’s going to burn itself out, and that’s what’s going to happen.\nOutbreaks have a rhythm. Even Ebola, microbes are going to take one of two\npaths. They’re always going to change, that’s just how they do. They only have\none chromosome, and any changes is big, you know? It's like a copy error, if I\nhad you write a sentence fifty times, you might make an error. Well, an error in\none-chromosome organism can code for something really bad. In the case of\nsomething like Ebola, it burned hot, and it burnt out, because you’re going to\nkill all of your hosts, and it’ll go back into its reservoir. Everything has\nwhat’s called a reservoir, that’s its home where it lives in communion and\nharmony, and it causes no damage. Even Ebola has a reservoir.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=19.0,19.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Do we know that reservoir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=19.0,19.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: We suspect that it’s a bat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=19.0,19.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: A type of bat, or?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=19.0,19.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: A fruit bat, these, they’re really big like flying fox bats. We can\ntell by their genome, they’re called beta, well in the case of COVID, they’re\nbeta coronaviruses. The reason anything was coming from a bat is difficult\nbecause bats have this ability to push on the interferon gene which allows a\nmicrobe who can live in high interferon to totally escape our interferon. Again,\nthe selective pressure, the microbe adapts to this environment that’s harsher\nimmunewise than ours. When we get something that’s descended from a bat as its\nreservoir, it’s bad news for us, because a bat’s immune system has this high\nlevel of interferon that we don’t have, and interferon is one of these compounds\nin your immune system that’s a first line of defense, it’s like a mass-killer.\nIf it can evade that, then you’ve got problems, because it's setting up shop and\nduplicating, and that’s exactly what COVID did. Again, the two different ways a\nmicrobe can decide to go around is, like Ebola, burns hot and fast, boom, and\nthen goes back into its reservoir. COVID took a different route. COVID’s a slow\nburn. Slow burn’s the worst— slow burn’s harder because it’s infecting people\nthat may not show it, and then it’ll pop up in somebody and it’ll kill them. The\nslow burn is what we’ve always said is what’s bad. While Ebola might be scarier,\nI’d rather have Ebola than a slow burn, because it’s just hiding, and it’ll pop\nup. It’s hiding, and it’ll pop up, and it’s changing all the way. Now what it\nseemed to do, I’m pretty happy what it’s doing right now. It’s becoming more\ninfectious but less deadly. It could have become more deadly and less\ninfectious. I’d rather have more infectious and less deadly, as a\nmicrobiologist. The route it’s taken is, we’re going to have to live with it\nnow. The cat’s out of the bag. I don’t honestly know if it would ever have been\ncontainable. I’m kind of thinking no. I don’t have an opinion on that yet, I’d\nhave to look at more science.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=19.0,20.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What I do know is where we are, and where we are is, we’re going to have to be\ndealing with vaccines everywhere just like, every year as we do flu, until we\nget a vaccine that’s targeting a universal enough gene that’s stable that we\ndon’t have to do that, and our immune system recognizes it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=20.0,20.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"With vaccines, I don’t want to get too worked up, but vaccines, when they’re\nreally effective, what they do is they tick off your immune system enough to\nmake it develop memory. Part of the problem with our first vaccines, where they\nwere great for a little while, cause then your body drops protection. The reason\nit does that is it doesn’t see it as a big threat. Why spend the energy? It’s\nhomeostasis, your body wants to use as little energy as possible, lazy at its\ncore. When you get something that’ll really tick off your immune system and make\nit think this is a big threat, you’re walking a tightrope. You don’t want it to\ngo so crazy it causes what you call a cytokine storm, which is your body will\nliterally kill itself. That happens in flu season every year, cytokine storms,\nsome people getting actually ill. You don’t want that, but you want it mad\nenough that it’s going to actually put energy into developing memory cells that\nwill sit in your immune library and wait. Otherwise, it just goes, okay, we\nalready did that, we’re done, we’re not writing a novel about it and sticking it\nin the library. We want it to develop the memory cells.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=20.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Is that what you’re talking about mRNA [messenger ribonucleic acid]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: No, mRNA is messenger RNA, so these vaccines are different than older vaccines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: So those are the older ones you were talking about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, so but the new ones, as in COVID, all COVID vaccines so far have\nbeen mRNA vaccines, well at least the ones we use. I think those are brilliant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Can you talk about those?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Sure, why not? I’m sorry, I do tend to drift around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: No, we’re good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay, so messenger RNA vaccines are interesting. The older vaccines, we\njust take the actual whole virus and try to weaken it so your body can win the\nwar. It’s a little dicey, cause there’s some codes there that you don’t it to\nexpress, so that whole genome expresses all of the things that the virus and\nbacteria can use to make you sick. It’s in there pumping out proteins and\ndifferent things it wants. Those proteins could make you very sick. What’s\ninteresting about the mRNA vaccines that I think’s brilliant is it takes just\nthis tiny little part of a code, so you’ve got the genome, and then when it\nwants to replicate, it unzips, and then it makes a reverse code, like a mirror\nimage, right? That’s called messenger RNA. Then the messenger RNA goes, and it\nreplicates again in tRNA [transfer ribonucleic acid], and then it actually makes\nthe proteins. Well messenger RNA, it’s very specific for one little thing in the\ncase of these COVID vaccines. It only codes for the spike protein. Doesn’t code\nfor all the other things it uses to mess up your body, just the spike protein,\nand the reason it went for the spike protein is because, think of it like a lock\nand key. It’s got this little spike, and that’s how it puts the key in there and\nenters your cell. If you lock out, the way it gets in the cell—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=21.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Then you’re locking—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: —then you can’t get infected, right, your cells can’t get infected. It\nwas very specific for just the way the virus was using to get into our cells and\nmaking antibody to block it. I liked that, you don’t have all the other proteins\nand things from bacteria or the virus that can make you sick, it’s not\nreplicating. It’s not even a whole dead piece, because your body’s going to\nreact to all of those things that we call epitopes, getting into the science. It\nwas very specific— I liked it— it was very specific. The only problem with it is\nyou can’t tell how much of an immune response you’re going to get from a person\nand populations until you actually do it. We know that’s the key, that’s why you\nstart. That was a great place to start. I was one of the first people to get the\nCOVID vaccine. Was I nervous? Sure, I’m a human being, I have. I also was a\nscientist, and I’m like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How did you feel when you got that vaccine, knowing that it was only a six-month—window.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes. When I got it, they didn’t know that yet, because I was one of the\nfirst people, so they didn’t know it was six months. They didn’t know anything,\nreally, other than, I knew the science— I trust the science. Okay, give me a\nshot. I got it here, and was I nervous? Yes. I was nervous because I had my own\nmedical issues. I’ve gotten migraines and cluster headaches. I also knew it\nwasn’t going to give me COVID— it was impossible to give me COVID. The first\nshot I only really, I got a headache, and I got a fever. The second one, the\nsecond dose is—you’re telling your body you want to tick off your immune system,\nyou’re challenging it again, and that’s going to tick off the immune system.\nThat’s why people had strong reaction to the second dose. There are two\ndifferent types of vaccines then. There was the Pfizer and the Moderna, and I\nknew the difference between the two, and I don’t think that was widely known.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Pfizer had three micrograms of messenger RNA per shot. The Moderna had about\nthirty. It was packing a wallop. I chose the wallop. The second shot was hard.\nThat was good. When I have a reaction like that, and my daughter had it too when\nshe was able to get hers, she was miserable in the second one, but we knew this\nwas your immune response, it was a little tiny taste of what COVID would be\nlike. It was just over, and like, for me it was a weird, fifty-four hours almost\non the dot, and it was like somebody flipped the switch, I’m fine, just stops,\nwhatever I’m having. You just know if you’re getting that response, that’s good.\nIf you’re miserable, that’s good— Somebody’s calling. I thought we put it on do\nnot disturb.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, if you’re feeling terrible, that’s great, because you’re not actually\nsick, but your body’s making these cells, and if it’s ticked off enough, it’s\ngoing to say, I ain’t doing this again, and it’ll develop these memory cells.\nThen what people need to know is, if you go and get a blood test, and you find\nyour antibody titer, people think, well you’re only protected if you have a high\nantibody titer. That’s not true— you don’t want that. You do want to see an\nantibody rise so that you see that you had immune reaction, but your body is not\ngoing to put energy into keeping circulating antibodies all the time. What you\nwant is for it to have done that, which kicks off the memory cells to be fully\ndeveloped. Then if you get challenged again, it remembers, it doesn’t have to go\nthrough the learning process in making the antibody. It already has the map in\nthat memory cell, and it starts kicking those antibodies out and you don’t get sick.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How long does that memory last?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: It can last your lifetime if it’s a good vaccine. Those are when we\ntell people like, you know when you have the recommended, this is when you use\nbooster. That’s based on the surveillance and testing people to see if they were\nchallenged will they have an antibody reaction, will they react properly?\nThrough those experiments and watching over time, they learn that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A lot of things with COVID we’re still learning. It’s really hard for me to hear\ncriticism of “the science changed.” How does science change? That’s all science\ndoes. Science always changes. If you’re a scientist and you say it’s always\nthis, you’re not a good scientist. You should know it’s usually this. Then if\nsomething’s strange, you find out why. Science is always changing and evolving.\nWith COVID, it’s a new disease. We had some reference from the first SARS, but\nit’s a new thing. It’s got its own pros and cons, and how people respond to\nthese vaccines. All we can do is watch. There was a communication gap there. As\na scientist down in the core.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Let’s talk about that real quick. When, in the very beginning, when we found\nout we were having this new novel virus coming over and we were waiting for it\nto arrive, Nancy Messonnier put out this wonderful--- she was out there and she\nwas telling people, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: That’s going to change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Things are going to change—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: It’s going to get rough—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: I think a lot of people in leadership didn’t want to hear that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: That was a real eye-opener because, because I’ve always felt like CDC\nalways let the science, led the way. I never felt obstructed until COVID. Nancy\nwas right, when I heard it, I wasn’t surprised, same thing I told my family.\nEither it’s going to get contained, or it’s going to run wild, and life’s going\nto get rough. Yes, I actually have an email, we were gag-ordered as scientists\nto not talk about anything in COVID, it was sent from HHS [Health and Human\nServices]. I learned a lot about the politics that I never had, I guess I’d been\nsheltered from, or I don’t know, things we were saying as subject matter\nexperts, and I was considered a subject matter expert, which is kind of scary on\nits own. We weren’t allowed to talk about it. The recommendations that I would\npass up the chain to whomever my superior was and their superior, it always\nseemed to change when it goes to the White House person, they didn’t want to\nhear it. One morning, we sat there, and heard something completely contrary to\nwhat we had told them. They put CDC recommends X, and we had recommended Y. We\njust sat there for an hour meeting completely dumbfounded with our mouths open,\nbut we were gag-ordered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=22.0,23.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We couldn’t go outside the structure and say anything to anybody, not on social\nmedia, not on your own time. They covered this, well they said it was covered\nunder the Hatch Act, that COVID was politically divisive, and we could not\ncomment on it whether on our personal time or on company time. That was really—\nI don’t understand why you would gag order your subject matter experts and say\nthey can’t talk. The science was never hard. What to do was never hard. It was\ngetting people to hear and accept, yes, you know what, something bad’s\nhappening, and this is how we protect ourselves.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=23.0,23.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To me, those years were the hardest years I’ve ever served in a federal service,\nbecause you would look on social media, and you would see all of this ridiculous\nnon-scientific garbage, and you couldn’t say anything. You felt powerless, and\neven if you talked to your close friends and didn’t have a paper trail, it was\nlike, I feel that I felt like a voice screaming into a tidal wave. I couldn’t\nget— everything I’d say here, instead of it going up and out like it always had,\nstopped, dead stopped. The director at the time, he was not a fighter. What was\nit, [Robert] Redfield. My opinion on him was he was weak. He would know when we\nwere telling him the science that we were saying the truth, but he was unwilling\nto tell that truth to the White House and make them understand it and accept it.\nIt was so incredibly frustrating, on so many levels. All of those deployments,\nit was always, why am I doing this, if it’s just going to get stopped at this\ncork, at the top of the chain, subject matter experts telling it up the chain to\nmanagers who are not scientists, and then to politicians who are not scientists,\nand then they just change it, because it’s not something they want politically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=23.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Do you think, well they always said, they don’t want to scare anybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: You know what, and I’m sorry, I think truth is always the best, and I\nknow that not everybody agrees with me in that, but being an outbreak person,\nI’ll tell it to you straight, I’ll say if it’s deadly, I’ll say your odds. I\nfeel like the nicest thing you can always do for somebody is shoot them straight\nand let them make their own decisions, right? I felt handicapped during the\nCOVID pandemic that I did my best, and I always told the truth and pushed it up,\nbut it never seemed to go out like it used to go out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How do you think Dr. [Anthony S.] Fauci got where—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I was really surprised to see NIH [National Institutes of Health] take\nthe lead instead of CDC. I felt like we got hamstrung by them not wanting to\nhear what Nancy or any of that, like oh, CC’s going to say things that are\nnegative, let’s just do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: For the record, let’s say who Nancy Messonnier is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Nancy Messonnier was the head of NCIRD, the National Centers for\nImmunization and Respiratory Diseases. Yes, so she’s the head of that center, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: That’s where SARS had come out of all, anything that’s respiratory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, I’d known her for decades. Very reputable, straight-shooter scientist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: She’s the flu lady.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, she’s absolutely the flu lady.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Her and Nancy [J.] Cox.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, and those two know what it’s like to have highly infectious\nrespiratory human-to-human transmission epidemic, pandemic. They’re the experts,\nworld, period, shooting it straight. And because that wasn’t wanted, that\nmessage that things are going to get rough, we got taken out of the table. CDC\nwas removed from the table. We were no longer on the news. We were hamstrung and\nput in the corner. Naughty, naughty CDC, don’t make people angry, don’t make\nthem scared. You know, I think that was the wrong thing to do because I feel\nlike any leader should tell their people the truth, period, whether it’s hard\ntruths, or an easy truth. You never go wrong with just shooting it straight.\nThat’s one of the things I love about science is that it’s not emotional— it’s\nnot political— it is what it is. It doesn’t emote, it doesn’t have an opinion,\nit doesn’t have anything other than what it is. Yes, it’s scary to have a\ndisease you can’t see that’s killing people that we don’t know anything about.\nThe worst thing you can do is have no trust. You don’t tell somebody the truth,\nthey find out, people aren’t stupid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=24.0,25.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: NIH took that lead?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=25.0,25.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, NIH was I guess, the Institutes of Allergy, I don’t know, I don’t\nknow Dr. Fauci— I don’t know him from Adam. In the beginning when I listened to\nhim, I could still stomach listening to anything on the news, I didn’t disagree\nwith what he was saying. I felt like he was straight-shooting people. I think he\ngot scapegoated in this whole thing too. You know, some of the stuff, people,\nagain, not understanding how diseases evolve and how the science evolves. I\nthink they just, it became too politically divisive. Somehow people made an\napolitical virus very politically divisive, and personally had destroyed a lot\nof my relationships. I was always extremely proud of my career and what I had\ndone and where I worked, I still am. There are some people who hate me for it,\nautomatically. They think it’s a joke now. It’s not a joke. Our work was never\nbad— we were hamstrung. Everything can always in retrospect be better. There\nwere things I found the communications that I would have strong recommendations\non. In the beginning, we were just shoved aside. We were pushed out of the conversation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=25.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: I think a lot of things, besides the hamstrung in the communications, the test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, okay, so I was deployed about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Let’s talk about that test, the failed test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: After my first deployment during operations with the clinical team\ngiving advice on what they should do in hospitals, I was asked to go on a field\ndeployment where they would be testing these brand-new rapid antigen kits. Now\nwe know it as the Binax test, right? What we were doing is we were going out to\nArizona to these mass-testing centers, and we would be getting people who would\ndo both the rapid test, and we would do a standard PCR [polymerase chain\nreaction] test, that is a highly technical test that requires forty-eight hours\nturnaround, to see could these rapid antigen tests that give results in fifteen\nminutes be something to help screen people so they could be around each other?\nWhat was— so we went out there testing, there’s hundreds of people a day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: When was this? What, where are we?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: No, okay, so this was November 2020. There was no vaccine yet. They\nwere looking for something that was better than a forty-eight hour, very\ntechnical PCR test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, can you talk about, before we get to those personal tests, remember CDC\nhad put out a test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: That was right at the very beginning, we had a test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right at the very beginning in February 2020.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: In testing, anybody who had COVID went to CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, so in February of 2020, then [Donald] Trump came over here. He\nwas scheduled to go to my lab, which is a hot lab, had COVID. The last minute he\ndecided he was not going to go in there because the lighting wasn’t good.\nAnyway, he went to a chemical lab that had no live agent N23 and told the public\nthat we had a test for anybody who wanted one, which was a massive lie, we did\nnot. There was nothing then. What there was, there was a test developed in\nChina. They did offer a different group at CDC. They decided not to take it,\nthey made their own. They did not do proper quality control checks on it before\nthey sent it out. Straight up bad science, no excuse for it. Those didn’t work.\nThen my group was tasked with fixing it. We had some people in our group who\ndeveloped the right primers by looking at the sequence that China gave us. We\nused to look at the sequence, and it’s a whole thing. They did their thing, and\nthey fixed it, and they made the proper primers, and now we had a PCR. Then, it\nwent back to that other group, with our test now, because again, talking about\njurisdiction, NCIRD owns this outbreak, because it’s a respiratory disease. We\nare NCEZID, that’s zoonotic infections. But we had the expertise, we did it. We\ngave it to them, and kept our cell, my group, I was a surge lab. They got\noverwhelmed with samples, our group would do it. That’s when the testing\nactually started, and that was a lag of about six to eight weeks. Now we’re on\nspring of 2020. Now we have a working PCR test, the primers are published and\ngiven to anybody who knows how to do PCR, so everybody can do it now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=26.0,27.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It’s still a PCR test, and that means it takes a scientist and it takes time,\nand it’s expensive. It’s not exactly something that if you’re like Joe Schmo who\nwants to open their shop, and so do my employees have COVID, it wasn’t practical\nto deploy at schools— anything. That’s where private industry came in. They were\ndeveloping antigen tests, which just detect if you actually have the virus in\nyou. There are certain proteins on the surface that we can bind to a dye and\nmake it show up like a pregnancy test type thing, so all right, simple. It’s\nfifteen minutes, and it’ll tell you do you have COVID, you actually have the\nvirus. It doesn’t tell you anything else other than that. You have a couple\nquestions, how sensitive is it, how many viral particles, how precise is it,\nwill it bind with other respiratory. Our team, the AZ3 Team was tasked with\ngoing out to Arizona, had mass testing centers they had developed with the PCR\ntest that was free for their people, and we were going to piggyback onto what\nArizona was doing, and add the option of a free antigen test so we could\nevaluate, is this something that we can deploy to schools and do a quick\nfifteen-minute test—yes, you can come in. The administration was asking us, we\nwant to deploy these everywhere, so is a screening test that we can open again.\nThere was a big fight over that. Still no vaccine. Okay, we had boxes and cases\nof these tests, we hauled out, every day we’d be at a different mass testing\ncenter. No vaccine, so we’re in scrubs, and masks. We would have to take\nbreathing breaks, because we were sweating through like face shields and three\nmasks. Yes, and so we were finding as we were doing these antigen kits, these\nwere not going to be the savior. These were missing early infections and late\ninfections, you had to basically be coughing and spewing everywhere for this to\ntest positive. Not a popular answer, again. Again, it’s like, we told them,\npublish a paper. These are not cross-reacting with anything, so they have a\ndegree of precision, but they’re not very sensitive. They’re going to miss the\nperson who is infectious and can get anybody else infected but are not sick yet.\nIt took a great deal of virus for the antigen to turn positive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=27.0,28.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: If you were already coughing and sick, you probably knew you already had it.\nThis wasn’t going to tell you anything different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=28.0,28.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: The insidious thing of these slow-burn viral respiratory things is that\nyou are most infectious before you know you’re sick. That is the, can I say,\nscrew you from the microbes. They’re going to survive. That’s why I always tell\npeople, you were infectious before you knew you were sick. If you know you’re\nsick, that’s great, but you’ve already infected everybody around you. There’s an\ninfectivity index called the R-naught in science. What it tells you is every\ntime that infected person is around somebody, how many people can get it, and\ncan they also infect? In the beginning, we suspected COVID, based on what the\nepidemiology was suspected, it was around three. Well now we know it’s closer to\nfive to eight, depending on which variant. Every person that’s sick and doesn’t\nknow their sick, they’re infecting eight people, and those eight people infect\neight people. You do the math, and you see why it explodes, that’s why the\nOmicron is so great at spreading. It’s just, highly infectious. Some bacteria or\nsome viruses just change their genome so that they are able to get into our body\nfaster or blow up in numbers They have their survival mechanism. All we can do\nis follow it. That deployment was six weeks, very hard six weeks of being in the\ndesert where it’s ninety degrees in November.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=28.0,29.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Wearing many layers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=29.0,29.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I’m sitting there, having to scream to people, because I’m screaming\nthrough masks and a face shield, right? It was November, so everybody was coming\nto get tested so they could go to their family functions. I could not educate\nthem fast enough, or to a degree where they felt they accepted the science.\nDidn’t matter what I said. If they were negative that day, super. You can be\npositive tomorrow— this doesn’t help you for Thanksgiving. As much as I told\nthem that, it didn’t matter. This is what we’re going to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=29.0,29.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Was it due to like, you think they were tired of being quarantined, and alone?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=29.0,29.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I think they didn’t believe anything we were saying. I think they\nthought it wasn’t as bad as, mostly what we would get is, I don’t know anybody\nwho has COVID. I don’t know anybody who has COVID. That’s just like in November,\nright? The Alpha strain, the first strain that came through was bad, but it\ndidn’t infect as many as we see now, right? I heard that all the time even from\nfriends, I don’t know anybody who has COVID. People didn’t even believe it was\nreal. They thought, well if I test negative, we’re all going to test, this was\nthe common reason people came to this mass testing centers in November. Well,\nwe’re being safe because everybody’s going to test, and then we’ll fly and have\nours. To me as a microbiologist I’m going, this is completely useless. This,\nbecause the way this virus works is information for this hour, this second in\ntime. You’re in line with 50,000 other people that could be sick, getting\ninfected. Here, it’s not going to show up. Then you go to an airport, which is a\ngiant petri dish. You’re in an airplane which is a giant petri dish, sharing air\nwith everybody. You’ve got all these chin diapers on, people who are wearing\nmasks below their nose, when you breathe through your nose, and the virus goes\nin, that’s how you get infected, that’s through your nose, not your mouth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=29.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Speaking of the nose and testing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: —Frustrating and pointless.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Can you explain to me why everybody had to, when you did the basic PCR test,\nwhy do you have to shove the Q-tip so far back into your brain—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay so again, this was, these were protocols based on what worked in\nother atypical respiratory pathogens. It was the best sample protocol. When you\nhave really difficult to work with respiratory pathogen, an NP [nasopharyngeal]\nswab is standard. What happens is these microbes go into your nose, and they go\nup and colonize your nasopharynx. It feels like you’re touching your brain,\nright, it’s like way out in there. When I started in atypical, the tests were\nalways NP swabs, not the nasal swabs, because until you get a test that’s\nsensitive enough to work with less virus there, most of it’s going to be in the nasopharynx.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You have to get to the motherlode?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right. Then at that point, we’re at the beginning, you have to go,\nwhat’s the best sample? We don’t know if the test is precise enough to work with\nthe nasal swab, but we know all the difficult ones so far, they’ll work with NP\nswabs, so that’s why it was an NP swab. That’s that horrible, flexible thing,\nthat’s way up your nose. Yes, then we always have the issue of compliance,\nright? You’re like, okay, well that might be the best sample, but is anybody\ngoing to do it? That’s why we really need a test that were sensitive enough to\nwork with less viral load that would be in the font of your nose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Have you gotten there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I feel like they’ve gotten better. The feedback we gave, Binax, that’s\nto Abbott, Binax Abbott for that, they have improved their sensitivity in that\nantigen test. These were the first ones. These were like, I gave you guys a box\nof those.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You did, yes. You said these don’t work, I’m like, oh great, fabulous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: No, they don’t. Now they’re a lot better, plus what we’re dealing with\nnow is a variant that replicates much better. Where you might have, let’s just\nuse round numbers, ten viral copies in your nose from the original strain,\nOmicron’s going to have ten billion. It’s just the way it replicates, it’s just,\nboom. The tests are now better. They got feedback, and the companies have a lot\nof money on the line, they wanted a better test. They want to be known as the\nbest test. Now every Joe Schmo’s got a test because it’s not a difficult thing\nto manufacture. What’s hard is getting that science and knowing, okay, what do\nwe got to do to put this thing together? Now they got a good formula, now\nthere’s a decent antigen test. I always tell people, PCR’s still going to be\nbetter. It’s going to find small amounts and it can replicate, it’ll tell you,\ndefinitely if you’ve been exposed. An antigen test is less sensitive, but it’s\nstill a good, down, and dirty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: The reason we were testing early one is, A, we didn’t have a vaccine, but\nwanted to make sure that we were not asymptomatic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, we were doing a lot of that too, like why are some people testing\npositive, and they’re like, I’m fine. That’s just what some bacteria do, or\nviruses do. That’s why I call it the slow burn ones, you know. Some people,\ntheir immune system will just shut it down. Other people, and that’s still\nscience, we have to figure out why. That’s the interesting thing, for long term.\nNow that the pandemic is “over”—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Is it over?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Well, here’s what I tell people. This is—outbreaks have a rhythm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: This is October.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Outbreaks have a rhythm, right? Now we’re dealing with something that’s\nendemic. Endemic means it’s here, and it’s going to have its seasons,\neverything, Legionella, Ebola, everything has these weird seasons. These are all\nliving things, they don’t talk to us, but they’re living things, and they\nrespond to their environment. We’re learning what COVID cycles are, it cycles in\nsummer, and then it cycles in the winter season, and that’s because of our\nbehaviors. The summer is more interesting scientifically, I’m not sure why. The\nwinter cycle up with COVID is because people do things like they travel, they’re\nindoors, they’re with immunocompromised loved ones more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Family gatherings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, so you’re dealing with a lot of people issues there, that’s why it\ncycles up. What was the question again, so what about the, I forget what the\nquestion was, I’m sorry, I drift off too much. It was about the COVID, oh, how\nthe outbreak went in general. Okay, so is it over? Speaking of the pandemic, is\nit over? Mostly. The way a pandemic will work is you’ll have that, boom, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: First wave, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Then you’ve got these, as it changes, and your body, it’s going around\nthe globe, and it’s changing, and you’re having the surges based on how it’s\nchanging. I remember, it could go one of two ways, fast burn or slow burn, high\ninfectivity and low lethality, or high lethality and low infectivity. What’s\ndone is it’s done this, boom, boom, boom, and we’re down here. I tell people,\nwe’re going to have this lethal blip with pandemics petering out. I call it the\nslow end decline— I’ve got a playlist in my iPhone for different times in my\nlife, I usually used to it by quarter. I had a pandemic playlist, and now I have\none called, “End of Pandemic: The Slow Decline,” because that’s where we are. As\nthings decline into endemic status, we’re going to have blip, blip, blip. It has\nsettled into the high-infectivity, low-lethality, which is good for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Are we coming into the blip again now that we’re going into October?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Absolutely. I think we’re going to cycle a lot. I think it’s going to\nslow into a cycle that ticks up with flu a little bit in the winter. I think\nyou’re going to see it tick in the summer, and I’m not sure why— I don’t know\nwhy. I don’t know why it upcycles, but it does. Every summer we have a tick, we\nhave a, bloop. The Delta surge. I’m glad Delta went away because Delta was terrifying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Yes, it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: It was hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Do you think our laboratory science has made an impact on the overall flow of\nthis pandemic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I was disappointed in how the labs responded to the pandemic. I feel\nlike private industry did better in that regard. When I was deployed, I was\nactually not in the Lab Task Force, I was in the Clinical Task Force, and then\nthe Vaccine Task Force [VTF], and I was actually, outside person working with\nthe lab as a partner which was interesting. They did not have a good handle on\nworkflows, and reporting. There needed to be a lot of infrastructure built, and\nthat was a struggle. When I would have, like say my reinfections deployment,\nwhen I was doing surveillance at the very beginning, could somebody get\nreinfected with COVID was the big question. We were asking the lab, our labs\nhere, to use that STATT system I talked about, sample comes in, it gets assigned\nto a unit, they get results. That’s a well tried-and-true system, but when they\ndid these task forces, they didn’t really utilize, they didn’t tap into that\nfully. They let the samples come in, but then they went to the Lab Task Force.\nThen the Lab Task Force was spinning those samples out, and no one knew, it was\nlike the three stooges, to be honest. Who’s doing serology? Oh, it’s this\nperson. You contact that person, no I don’t do that, it’s this person. It was, I\nfelt like I was who, who, who the heck is in charge here? It was a lot of\nchasing down, did your lab do this? Where are the results? They didn’t have the\nrecordkeeping. I felt like it was an embarrassment, as a lab person that wasn’t\ndeployed to the Lab Task Force, I’m like, oh come on, man, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=30.0,31.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How did that settle out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=31.0,31.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I don’t feel like it ever did. I feel like what happened is, in 2021,\nwhen I was sent to the Vaccine Task Force, and I still was somewhat dealing with\nthe lab, they kind of settled into a rhythm. The problem with the deployments\nthere was they were six weeks, or thirty days, and by the time somebody learned\ntheir job, they were gone. This high turnover for a long pandemic did not work.\nThe structure was, when the EOC, the Emergency Operation Center was deployed,\nyou’re not supposed to be deployed for more than sixty days. Most supervisors\nwould only approve thirty days. I was core outbreak, so I had an argument to\nsay, this is my niche, and I’m supposed to be deployed. I was deployed for\nmonths at a time, so I got to be good at my job. The handicap was, in the Lab\nTask Force in particular, they’re doing thirty-day rotations, no one knew who\nwas doing, there was no stop infrastructure system, and a consistent leader.\nThere needed to be consistency— there was a flaw in the ointment, so to speak,\nwhere you have a pandemic, and by nature, a pandemic is not a flareup like other\nemergency operation deployments. You needed to have a minimum of sixty-day\ndeployments for somebody to learn their job and then actually be good at it.\nThere was way too much turnover.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=31.0,32.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The way we dealt with it in my core deployment team, the clinical, we would use\nthe same people over and over. They would rotate in and out, in and out, in and\nout. They did learn it— they were gone again because their supervisor would make\nthem, but then we had, a rotating, person A was here, gone, person B was here,\nthen person A came back, then person B came back. We kept doing this, and that’s\nwhy I kept going back to the same team, because I knew the job. In the Lab Task\nForce, I felt like they were never recycling people, it was always somebody new,\nand they didn’t have infrastructure that they needed for a long pandemic. This\nshould have all been done by, there’s an office of preparedness, and they got\nsome learning, I’m sure, out of this. There also was a huge problem with, of\nsupervisors denying deployments. If CDC’s main operation mission at that point\nwas COVID, there shouldn’t have been obstruction by supervisors because they\nhave their own PMAP [Performance Management Appraisal Program] and things they\nneed to get done. Either it’s a priority to CDC or it’s not. I was asked to\ndeploy for monkeypox [mpox], and my supervisor stood in the way. This was\nsomething during COVID by the second year. We were dealing with so much burnout\nfrom the people who would—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=32.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: That’s what I was going to ask you, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Of course, A, B, A, B, those people were so burnt out, and supervisors\nwere so resistant, that we were having to go to EIS officers, or US Public\nHealth [Service] officers who cannot be, they have to deploy, if you ask them\nto, they have to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: What about the LLS [Laboratory Leadership Service] people?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: No, they don’t have to. The Laboratory Leadership? I’ve had interesting\ninteractions with them. Some are completely incompetent and weird, and other\nones are great. My experience with the person who was LLS on the AZ3 Team was\nshe was grossly incompetent. I’ll leave it at that, I’ll leave it at that, she’s\ngrossly incompetent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You had to rely on EIS officers to backfill?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Oh yes. By the second year, by 2021, most of my operations was getting\nclinicians to have to deploy for either the vaccine education or the clinical\neducation. Those poor guys were just fried, just so tired. It is—I was fried\ntoo. You would work, oh god, there were times I worked seventy-two-hours\nstraight, I didn’t get any sleep. You couldn’t even report those hours, because\nit’s illegal, but you had to do them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: What were you doing during those seventy-two hours? Give an example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: There would be the reason I had to do that one was because of problem\nwith the Laboratory Task Force. They couldn’t find the results, and I was having\nto do investigations between, it was the Navajo nation, and they’re set up to\ntry and test their people for COVID, and the people here in the Laboratory Task\nForce, and it was just gross incompetence, and I was having to unravel all of\nthis nonsense and try to figure out where the samples went, where the results were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, people might turn off their phones at 6:00 pm but I still had to figure it\nout, and I had to have it done before seven AM, and so I worked all night long\nto get an answer, because it was intense during the day. You would look up, and\nit would be six hours later. My daughter was home from college during this. I\ndon’t remember, but she said she saw me in the living room just crying, and I\ndon’t even remember that I was just so burnt out, tired, frustrated. Feeling\nlike I’m working so hard but I’m getting nowhere. It was very difficult,\nmentally, to feel like you’re getting somewhere. I don’t mind working hard at\noutbreaks— I do it every day. I get somewhere, and somebody listens to me when I\nfind the results. I don’t feel like I’m banging my head against the wall, but\nCOVID was a giant bang your head against the wall. There needed to be better\ninfrastructure when the EOC deploys. Because when somebody comes in, is never\ndeployed before, like a massive response, like a pandemic, they don’t know what\nto do— they don’t know how to log their averages. All these things they have to\ndo, and the reason I was in operations is I sat down, and I took my own time\nafter work, and I made all these links, and these books and things so just did\nthis, did this, did this. I had to develop that on the fly, while I was doing\nthat job, to help other people downstream understand the infrastructure, when\nthat should have already been done. We had been saying for years, there’s a\npandemic coming, period, end of discussion. Why weren’t these things ready? I\ndon’t know. I mean, I’ve been here a long time and I adapted pretty quick, but I\nalso know all the people who were hired just for COVID as contractors. It was a\ncomplete disaster. They didn’t know anything about CDC. They didn’t know how to\ntalk to anybody here. Then we had some that didn’t even bother to dial in,\nbecause it’s remote. It was, what happened was their work ended up piling onto\npeople who would do it, and it was an overburden to compensate for people who\nwere just either untrained or unwilling to work. It was a combination of both.\nIt was tough. I feel like I aged in dog years those three years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=33.0,34.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: During the pandemic, we had leadership changes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=34.0,34.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, we did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=34.0,34.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: At the federal level, and at the directorship level as well. Did you see a\nlot of changes because of these leadership changes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=34.0,34.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, it was really, really historic. With the gag order email and the\nignoring of all the science, getting corked at the political level, when [Robert\nR] Redfield left, I’ll use names, when Redfield left, he was weak. He knew we\nwere saying the right science, but he was too weak to stand up to the\nadministration who didn’t want to hear that. It had become so politically\ndivisive at that point, it was just, it wasn’t about the science. It was\nsomebody who already made their camp and put their foot firmly in the sand.\nWell, when [Joseph R.] Biden was elected in that January, we had within six\nweeks, we had a worldwide conference here on COVID, so much was done in six\nweeks that wasn’t done in the past year-and-a-half, we got somewhere. We still\nhad infrastructure problems with getting the vaccine deployed out, but we at\nleast at that point felt like the cork was gone. I don’t feel like they had any\nscientific guidance for us, but we had somebody who removed the cork, the\npolitical cork, and was letting us do our job. If we failed, it was on us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=34.0,35.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Getting the vaccine out was harder, because again, we already had lost the\nmessaging war, and it was political at that point. There’s always, I think\nthings that should have been place as far as how do we deploy mass vaccines? How\ndo we deploy mass drugs? Still, we need to have that in place. We were building\nthe plane as we were flying it. We didn’t really have industry experts who knew\nhow to do this. I felt like it would have been a great time to ask industry to\nstep in and help us. I know supply chain working for Johnson \u0026amp; Johnson, who\nhad a whole person who did nothing but supply chain, Steve Anderson, who’s great\nat it. I was like, call Steve. We really probably would have benefited from\npartnering with industry. Sometimes I feel like government is too, no it’s\ngovernment we’re not going to partner with industry. The United States is an\ninteresting mixed economy, right? I feel like we should have been able to ask\nindustry, hey, you guys are supply chain experts, help us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=35.0,35.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I still think that there’s an opportunity to do that. We didn’t take it— we\ntried to build our own infrastructure and get the vaccines out, and while I was\nworking with the team that was dealing with answering emails, technical emails,\nphone, clinicians across the world. I have opinions about the answers, I feel\nlike the messaging and how CDC communicates with the outside, I’m not a\ncommunications person, but I can tell you what I see. I think people don’t go to\nour website because it’s boring. I think they don’t hear us because they don’t\nbelieve us because we lost a lot of trust. Without trust, you can’t do public\nhealth. I feel like we would have really benefited by one of these people who’s\ngot a Twitter or something, make a funny tweet. The one thing people always\nremember is the FDA getting snarky about ivermectin. Great, that’s awesome, the\nmessage got out. Sometimes I feel like people here are so serious and take\nthemselves so seriously, they want to be solemn. That’s not how you get the\nmessage out to people, I’m sorry, you have to meet people where they are. Meet\nthem where they are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=35.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Did you work on [Operation] Warp Speed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You did?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: What was that like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Horrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Beating your head against the wall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You got the vaccine out in Warp Speed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Did we?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How did the vaccine come out in such little time? In the past, vaccines came\nout, it took years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: The messenger RNA technology, it’s a lot easier to do. I can make it in\na lab. What happened—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Is it trustworthy?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Do you trust me? The science was never the hard part. The hard part was\nthe communications and the trust, and that got shut down early, got sidelined,\nhamstrung, put in the corner. Naughty, naughty CDC don’t tell us negative stuff.\nWith the messenger RNA, it’s this little, tiny piece of nucleic acids. We can\nhave a computer, we just tell them sequences, like, programming a book, right?\nThis is the sequence we want, make it, and it makes it. They used to use things\ncalled Taq [Thermus aquaticus] polymerase and things that can, the enzymes that\nwill do it for us, we found from these different bacteria that live in thermal\nvents. It’s a whole thing. We know, it’s like cooking at this point. Here’s the\nrecipe, trying to give us a sequence. The messenger R spike protein, we had\nthat. Making the vaccine is just like cooking. You just make it, they can,\nthere’s the GMP [good manufacturing practice] and the quality control and all\nthat stuff. Making it up, there’s the GMP and the quality control and all that\nstuff. Making it up was again on private industry, and they did a good job. Then\ndeploying it came to us, and we really needed supply chain people. It was just\npeople trying their best to learn a skill they didn’t have. We had subject\nmatter experts like me, but I am not, I’m a COVID expert. I’m not a supply chain\nexpert. I don’t know how you get a trucking company to take something to Tucson\n[Arizona]. I don’t know how many doses this state needs. You had a whole lot of\njurisdictional issues too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=36.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Oh yes, we could bring that up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Certain states.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: There’s so much to this, I mean there’s a disproportionate effect on\nmarginalized populations, there’s the racial and ethnic minorities. When Dr.\n[Rochelle] Walensky began her tenure, and I think that was right around the\nDelta surge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: There were so many talks about health equity, and what was the focus points\nfor the labs when you were talking about it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: We don’t actually focus on that, because we don’t care who the person is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: The science.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, we don’t ever get involved in that, so when I deal with a\nperson, I just know it’s a human being, I know nothing else about them. All the\nhealth equity and stuff, those go to health analysts, and health scientists, and\nthat’s whole ‘nother department. The pros and cons of working here is we’re\nhyper experts, right? I can be really good at finding a resistant bacteria,\nfinding its mechanism, telling you how to fix it. I can’t tell you anything\nabout why does this person get access to the vaccine and this person doesn’t.\nIt’s a lot of culture, as I understand it. We do go to classes about it,\nrequired testing, training. It’s a new skill for me, to be honest. I never\nreally gave it much thought, and I don’t mean that about it, I just didn’t think\nabout it. I just brought the science, here you go, I don’t care who has it. I do\nunderstand a little bit more now that some people are more trusting. I’ve\nlearned that there’s certain cultures of less trust, they won’t go get it. Other\npeople have no access or understanding of what it is. It’s a lot of stuff that’s\nnot really something that somebody like me would be any good at. It needs to be\nsomething like a social worker, somebody who can bridge those things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=37.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We need bridges here from our experts to actual people. There’s a whole other\nway that I guess me as a scientist, I call them the normal people, but they just\nthink different, they make different choices because they don’t think like I do.\nI know I’m a little weird, I see things different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=38.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You see it from a scientific space.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=38.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, I see it from almost like, I don’t feel like a Vulcan or\nanything, but I do think, I make those decisions very unemotionally. Even with\nmy daughter, when the COVID vaccine, I’m like, yes, you’re getting it, we’re\ndone. As I understand it now, there’s a lot more complexities some groups, I\nknow that we’ve found retrospectively that the Latino, they refuse to not\ngather. I saw it in my own neighborhood. They had a lot more COVID. They just\nrefused to make changes in their cultural practices. That’s just not my area of\nexpertise. Again, sometimes in the pandemic I was asked to do jobs I was just\ngrossly not qualified for. I did my best, but it was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=38.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so I want to turn toward, that’s the beginning of pandemic state lab\nreporting, it was a little uneven. Some states were slower than others to report\nin cases and causing delays and reporting on up. Is it a matter of underfunding,\nunderstaffed or overwhelmed, or those surveillance systems?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=38.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Okay, so it’s a combination. This, that was not new. As I do outbreaks\nall the time, certain states have got it together, and they’re well-funded, and\nhave great people. Other states are like, they’ll just tell you, we don’t know\nwhat we’re doing. Two people, like Kansas, they struggle. Our group, my branch\nhas set up a network, ARLN network, Antimicrobial Resistance Laboratory Network,\nfor every region in the United States to have an expert in a state lab. We\nbrought them here, we trained them, and we sent them out, because we were\noverwhelmed with too many highly resistant infections. We needed there to be\nregional experts. Those states are very well-funded and know what they’re doing.\nThe others, other states, and it’s a political thing, how much do you want to\nfund your public health? I am sometimes shocked at the lack of knowledge. We’re\ndealing with an outbreak from the American Red Cross platelet bags since 2019.\nPuerto Rico, is a US territory, right? They have this facility that is\ncontaminating platelet bags since 2019, consistently. Their public health lab,\nlike yesterday, sent four more contaminated specimens. They don’t even know how\nto streak out a plate, basic, basic stuff. It’s contaminated, it takes me an\nentire week to separate it out and clean it up. They just don’t know what\nthey’re doing. We can’t fix that for them. We can offer them education, we can\nsay we can teach you a routine or whatever, but it’s very rare that they would\nhave the money like they did for ARLN to have these people come here and get\ntrained and go back out. Some states are just better than others, and we have no\ncontrol over that, we just try our best to work with it, and COVID was no\ndifferent, it wasn’t surprising. Some states are great, other ones are, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=38.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: During a pandemic of this nature, don’t you think— what are your thoughts on\nmaybe enacting a federal surveillance system for all of the states, so that,\nalmost like sending out an EIS officer instead of they go into each public\nhealth lab and help them level up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: For COVID, or just for other surveillance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Just for when we have something as huge as COVID.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I know they tried to do something similar, but we didn’t have enough\npeople, just not enough people that were experts. The EIS officers whose job it\nis to go out there, they are not subject matter experts on the lab— they don’t\nhave a clue. They spend, like I said, only one week with us, and that’s unusual,\nthey don’t even usually get that much lab. They’re just doctors or\nepidemiologists. They go in a lab, they’re just like— we would need a lab expert\nto go out there to train. We don’t have that mechanism. Would it be good,\nabsolutely. It would require funding. Right now, we don’t have any funding to\ntravel anywhere. I haven’t traveled anywhere in decades, other than the\ndeployment. They don’t pay for us to go anywhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: We used to do that. We used to bring in lots of people and have—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: We did, we did, I trained a lot of people, in fact, I trained a lot of\nChinese scientists on first SARS on how to do testing for different things. I\nwas shown reading. We used to always have foreign scientists in the lab who were\nlearning, but I don’t know what happened. When I left and came back, that just\nwasn’t a thing anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Yes, well part of CDC’s original, way back in the ‘50s, we would bring in\nclasses and classes of people to learn techniques and then take that back to the\npublic health, to their own public health laboratories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: That’s right, they even did, after the first SARS, they tried to send\nme to Malaysia for year, and what was it called? Global Disease Detection, we\nhad a different name for it. Yes, so we were bring sent everywhere to teach them\nhow to do surveillance for, I don’t know why that stopped.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Education used to be part of our mission.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, I mean, I’m trying to think of the last time, we have LLS fellows\nnow— a guy from Ireland, he’s nice. We don’t seem to do as much of that as we\nused to. My lab does a lot of political tours, we have a fishbowl lab, where\nthey just, a monkey in the cage, look at me work!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Oh, you mean you’re on a tour?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, they have these tours, political tours. I think I saw Nancy Pelosi\na couple months ago. Is she here? Because it looked like her. I was working in\nthe lab, and it’s a fishbowl lab, so there’s these giant windows, and it’s set\nup for tours, so like, you know, they can go around in a circle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: I think I’ve been there, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: [Michael] Mike Bell loves to take them to our lab, because he used to\nwork there. I’m in the outbreak lab so I’m either really busy or really board,\nand I was really busy that day, and I had a stack of plates. I don’t know who\nthey were, but they were taking pictures even. Normally they don’t take pictures\nhere, but they said they were allowed to take pictures, so these must have been\nhigh up. I could feel the eyes burning on the side of my head as I’m sitting\nthere looking at plates, felt like a monkey in a cage. These were politicians,\nand most people scatter like a cockroach when the light comes on, they don’t\nwant to be in the lab when the tourists come through. I am the complete opposite\nmindset, as much as I don’t like it, being looked at like that, if you’re a\npolitician, and these are usually people like Congress and whatever, and you\ncome to CDC to see that we have this resistant infection problem or COVID\nproblem, and you go to labs and they’re all dark, do they seem real busy to you?\nYeah, I make it a point, I’m going to work, you can watch me work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=39.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Was there social distancing in the lab? Did you have to distance yourselves?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: For two years I really didn’t work in the lab— I really didn’t. The\nlabs were basically nonexistent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You tele-worked?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, because remember, I do hospital-acquired infections. No one was\ndoing anything with COVID.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: That’s another question, because the entire agency went into COVID mode, I\nmean, did that affect the labs and what you were actually working on? Did you\njust have to balance your regular work and accommodate COVID, or was it COVID\nfirst, and then, hey maybe I’ll get extra time, I’ll work on this other black plague?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, it was split down the middle for our branch, I can speak for our\nbranch. In our branch, we have surveillance, we have reference, and we have\noutbreak. Reference is the things— the state labs send you something. They kept\nworking— they were deployed. They kept working, and they spaced how they were in\nthe lab to maximize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so there was some social distancing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Absolutely. You were only allowed like one person in the lab at a time.\nThey rotated, that was reference. Surveillance also did the same thing. They\nkept with their surveillance— it wasn’t going to drop. People like me in\noutbreak, or people who were just research got deployed to COVID. I was\noutbreak, and I got deployed to COVID, so our labs basically shut down. There\nwere no outbreaks that came in, there just weren’t. Now we’re getting a back\nflood of everything that went sideways they weren’t looking at during the\npandemic. During the pandemic, we just didn’t get states having outbreaks that\nthey brought to our attention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Everything went on hold in that respect?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Correct, and it didn’t get better, the hospital was just overwhelmed.\nNow we’re seeing the deluge of what happens when the hospital’s overcrowded and\nnot getting cleaned properly. Now we’ve got all sorts of fun stuff coming down\nthe pipeline.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: There’s going to be a few papers on the outcome of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: We don’t write papers, usually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Not you, but somebody will, I’m sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Not usually. I try to keep records for some of our more interesting\noutbreaks, like you know, there was one where these people were taking mobile\nvaccines to remote, big, like industry in I think it was Kentucky, I forget what\nthey called themselves. Anyway, they were carrying the vaccines in the same\ncooler they had their lunch. They ended up contaminating, we have pictures of\nvaccines in pickle jars and stuff. They were contaminating them, and they ended\nup giving a lot of people bacteria infections, because they were eating. People\nhave a habit, when I was teaching, I would tell people, people are creatures of\nhabit, and it’s interesting. They’ll go eat, and then they’ll go to the\nbathroom, right, lunch, go to the bathroom, then go back to work. They think\neverybody else’s hands are dirty, but they don’t have to wash theirs, and don’t\nwash their hands. They have “magic hand syndrome”, as I call it, people who put\ngloves on and touch everything thinking that the gloves suddenly sterilize\nthemselves every time you touch. Again, it’s not sound microbiology We found\nthese people were giving people infections from fecal bacteria, yes. Fun stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=40.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Ask you, something that’s kind of a big buzzword is the genome sequencing.\nTell me more about that. Do you encounter that in your work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=41.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Oh, we do it every day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=41.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, so tell me more about genome, and was it handy for COVID?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=41.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes. I’m going to give you a better example of why it’s good. An\noutbreak, that’s in a NICU, the little neonates, obviously they have almost no\nimmune system, they’re very, very vulnerable. Well, there was an ICU [Intensive\nCare Units] where they were dying from this E. coli infection that had a highly\nresistant plasmid in it, I don’t remember the plasmid name. The mother, one of\nthe mothers was suing the hospital, saying the hospital was negligent, and\nreally wanting to know where it came from. Hospital was insisting they had\nnothing wrong. CDC’s kind of like the moderator, comes in. We’re not regulatory,\nand we’re going to help you find where it came from. With their whole genome\nsequencing, sometimes we can do a biological clock and show you the flow of\ninfection. Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for, because as a\nmother, I understand this, well I don’t understand, but I can imagine, it was\nhorrible. She’s so insistent that it was somebody else had done something\nnegligent. What we found in our sampling was, we went to the breast pump, the\ncommon breast pump, and we found the E. coli, and we had found the E. coli in\ndifferent kids, some had survived, some hadn’t. You could look at the sequence,\nthe whole genome sequencing needs, remember they just have one chromosome, we\nunwind it, and it has a specific sequence, there’s adenosine, tyrosine, all\nthese different amino acids. We do a sequence. As things copy multiple times,\nevery time it passes, it copies, you have a copy error, so the more copy errors,\nit’s like a biological clock. One copy error is closer to the original than ten,\nright? If you wind the clock back after sequencing, what we found on the breast\npump, what we found on the mother, what we found on the neonate, what we found\non the other neonates and the other parents, the mother who was asking, or suing\nthe hospital was the originator of the fecal bacteria, the E. coli that got into\nthe common breast pump that infected everybody. That’s an example of\nwhole-genome sequencing, we look at every sequence, and then every SNP, [single\nnucleotide polymorphism], a SNP is a change, it’s a clock.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=41.0,42.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How long does it take?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=42.0,42.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: A week, about a week. Then we have bioinformaticians that will look at\nthe sequence and they analyze it in a computer, and they’re the ones that can do\nthat biological clock and do the back-tracing, so, that’s whole-genome\nsequencing. We use it all the time in outbreaks to see, is the strain from the\nhospital related to the patients, is there a patient zero? That’s how we can\ntrace things back is looking exactly at that fingerprint. We used to have less\nspecific things that we could use, PFGE [pulsed-field gel electrophoresis]\ntesting, western blot testing. Now the whole-genome sequencing is very precise,\nextremely expensive. Very expensive, thousands of dollars for a test. It’s a lot\nof money. When we decided to do whole-genome sequencing, I’ll get the samples,\nI’ll purify it all, and I’ll pass it off to them to put through the actual\nmachine, and then it goes, the information goes to the bioinformatician, and\nthen we get it back and talk to the epidemiologist, and we tell him the\ninformation we’ve gleaned from it. Are these things, sometimes you can have two\npatients that both have like say a Pseudomonas infection, completely unrelated.\nWhat’s interesting is if you do whole-genome sequencing and you see they’re very\nrelated, and it’s the same as a common piece of hospital equipment, then it’s a\nreal— a reasonable thing to say, there was an infected process there, the\npatient infected the machine, or the machine infected the next patient, so you\nknow, you have a reasonable explanation as to why things happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=42.0,43.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You can say they’re completely unrelated and go clean your hospital. The core\nproblem for us in hospitals that we’re seeing the deluge from COVID is that they\ncut staff starting with the cleaning staff, or they have the same staff do ten\ntimes more, and they’re not scientists, they don’t know that a quaternary\nammonia compound needs two-minute contact time versus bleach that needs thirty\nseconds. They don’t know that the bleach that they made up yesterday is\noxidized, dump it out and make new. They’re not scientists. They just spray,\nwipe, move on. Yes, so sometimes bacteria can survive, and they get again\nresistant, the more you challenge them, they just get nastier and nastier. I’ll\nalways have a job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=43.0,43.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: All right, I think I want to turn to, we’ve talked about misinformation and\nhow that has an effect on everybody’s job. I do want to turn now towards more\npersonal at the time of COVID, and family and households, and you had said that\nyou had informed your family early on, this is going to be a slow burn, buckle\nup. Were you worried for other family members during this time? Were they all in\none place? You grew up in Marietta, so that’s local to here. Is all your family\nin one spot?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=43.0,43.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: They are, and I have a very interesting family story from the pandemic.\nYes, I was worried about some, so again, I was second of six kids. My mother is\nan antivaxxer science denier. My dad is, he tries to stay out of my mother’s\ncrosshairs, but he listens. I have my sister Sharon who is number five, has\nsomething called Lennox-Gastaut syndrome, and requires twenty-four hour care. I\nwas always extremely worried, if she got sick, her condition’s such that even if\nshe’s not sick and she sneezes, she just thinks it’s funny to see how far she\ncan spray it, it’s a whole thing. I knew if she got sick, we got a problem. My\nmom, again, science denier, very— she’s a former nun, so we’re dealing with\nsomebody who’s extremely religious, extremely religious. My siblings all follow\nin line except for me. When I told them what was going down, at first, they\nlistened. Then when it got political, they stopped. I would always tell them\nbefore a wave, I knew it was coming, I sent them a message, and I finally\nstopped sending them because they didn’t care. They don’t want to hear it. They\nweren’t going to do anything. They weren’t going to get vaccinated— they didn’t\ncare. I was worried, because I knew if my sister Sharon got sick, it was going\nto be hospital time. Again, the pandemic and the stress of being deployed, my\nblood pressure went up to 240/190. I ended up going to the hospital, and they\nsent me home because there was nobody who could deal with me, they said try to\nrelax, and not stroke out. Normally I would be admitted for something that bad,\nbut it was during the Delta surge, and I was deployed on the Delta surge, and\nseeing all these children die, and it was really hard, and my blood pressure was\ngoing sky high.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=43.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember right when I saw the Delta coming, I was trying to be a good\ndaughter, I invited my mother over to my house, because I hadn’t seen her in a\nlong time, but it was such, the community levels, I would be fine, I was\nvaccinated, even though she wasn’t. Be in a house and watch, what was it, I like\nold ‘60s movies, I think it was Tammy Tell Me True or something silly. Anyway,\nand I remember trying one more time to convince her of getting vaccinated and\nprotecting Sharon and X, Y, Z. She just was like no, I’m fine, it’s my free\nchoice, I’ll be fine. I had seen Delta, and I told her, I said mom, you have two\nchoices this time. You can’t do what you did before that, but I’m telling you as\nyour daughter and as a scientist, you gave birth to me, I’m not lying to you,\nbecause she had flat out told me CDC lies. I said to her, I am CDC. You’re\ntelling me I lied. You gave birth to me, you don’t believe I’m telling you the\ntruth, I’m telling you this right now. You have two choices. This wave is\ncoming, it’s going to get you, you’ll get sick, or you’ll get the vaccine, pick\none, because it will find you. It’s kind of like one of those weird points in my\nlife where I remember those were the last words, I said to her as she was\nwalking out the door getting in her car, I said, it will find you, mom. This one\nwill find you. Because you thought, well I’m fine the first time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=44.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No, not this one. She had not changed going to church, and all these other\nthings that I knew were mass spreader events, because they’re singing, and it’d\nbecome again politically divisive. If you were Christian, you were anti-COVID,\nwhich I have a big issue with. Again, so last thing I said to her, and then I\njust had this weird feeling while I was again deployed one morning, and I was\nlike, I need to call them, they’re sick, I know they’re sick, I know it, I know\nthey’re sick. Called them and they were sick. My dad had listened and gotten\npartially vaccinated. He had gotten his first shot, and he was actually, on the\nFriday, he was the first one to get sick. He was due to get the next shot on\nSaturday, but he had gotten something. He was sick for twenty-four hours. My\nsister, and my mom, and my other siblings who got sick were sick for two months,\nand my sister was hospitalized. Just what I told them would happen, and they\nstill, when she was very sick, she’s like, yes, I’m getting the vaccine, I’m\ndefinitely getting the vaccine. She got better, no vaccine. She thinks she’s\nprotected now. I kept telling her, it doesn’t work that way. When it changes,\nit’s like a whole new signal, you need another, you need a booster, you need to\ndeal with this new strain that’s come through. No, I’m fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=45.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I cannot get my own family to listen to me. It’s been very hurtful in the fact\nthat, I no longer believe they are proud of me, or they respect me. Again, first\ngeneration college, I went to Georgia Tech, graduated top ten percent of my\nclass, bioengineering. They do not listen to me. They do not listen to me. I\nknew what was coming every step of the way. My daughter and I did not have\ntrouble during the pandemic, as far as, I always had enough supplies because,\nbelieve it or not, I have had a pandemic kit for like, fifteen, twenty years. I\nhad N95s that still said Revco on it, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Ooh, still good?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: They seemed fine. I drug it around for years in this little plastic\nbucket. Pandemic kit, batteries, food, medicine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You were prepared.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Totally prepared.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Everybody laughed at my kit for years. They’re like, what’s that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You never had to go out for new stuff? When we were all in lockdown, what was\nthat like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: It was weird, you know again, another rhythm of outbreaks. I was just,\ntwo weeks when I saw things going, okay, in two weeks, this is going to be bad,\nso I went and go to Costco or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Get your pallet of food?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, I basically turned my garage into a storage facility, because I\nhave this tiny 900-square-foot house. We never wanted for anything, I always\nstayed a step ahead of it, because I saw it coming. Again, at the beginning, I\nreally tried to warn people who would listen to me. Then I just stopped because\nI was tired of fighting with people. I didn’t want to do it anymore. I felt a\nresponsibility anytime I saw it to correct things. It was so draining. It was\nscreaming into the wind. I could not get anybody to listen. I knew what was\nhappening, so I protected me and my daughter, and both of us to this day are fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Did she come home from school because it was closed for COVID?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, we paid a ton of money for this theater school in Chicago, and she\ncame home the second semester of her freshman year, and she didn’t go back until\nher junior year. I feel bad that she missed that part of her learning, but the\nschool shut down, and beginning where there’s no— I had an agreement with her,\nshe said, you’re coming home until there’s a vaccine. There’s a vaccine, go out.\nShe’s been brought up by a mother who does outbreaks. She knows the rhythm. It\nwas interesting, because her classes that were online but in Chicago, those\npeople were much more supportive of what we were doing than I found here in the\nSouth, much more interested and just willing to listen. In fact, the school\nasked me a lot of things. I said, well I can’t tell you as an official CDC\nemployee, but I can tell you as a scientist what I would do, and what I wouldn’t\ndo. I felt like they were more receptive to the science and trusting than here\nin the South. I really felt a lot of resistance down here, but I didn’t feel it\nup in Chicago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=46.0,47.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Why do you think it got so politicized?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=47.0,47.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I think it was a political tool for the Trump administration. I’ll just\nname names, I don’t care. I felt like it was an election time, and to have\nsomething negative going on would in their eyes erroneously be blamed on them to\nallow it to happen when it was just a biological instance, there was nobody.\nCould it have been handled better, absolutely, I really feel like it could have\nbeen. The fact that there was a pandemic was just an act of what China did, and\nnot going by the recommendations that we said after the first SARS.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=47.0,47.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It happened again, just like we said it would, if they didn’t do certain things\nand that’s all a matter of record, I mean people can look that up. It became so\ndivisive so quickly because the science was not allowed to lead, and it became\na— Oh, these people are just trying to wreck your life. Listen to me, follow me,\nelect me, listen to me. You’re fine, you’re fine, you’re fine. You know, again,\nthe truth is really the best way, a good leader tells the truth, doesn’t tell\nsomebody what they want to hear, even when he got sick. To get the type of\nexperimental treatment he had, that man would have died if he wasn’t the\npresident. He was sick, very sick. To tell people a lie like—Oh, don’t be afraid\nof this. I was hoping when he got sick that it would be a learning moment where\nhe’d go, you know what, you guys get a vaccine, this is not something to play\naround with. He went the other way and doubled down the other way. Every time he\ndid that, circumvented us, plugged the story or changed what we said, was all\nfor political gain, at the expense of people’s lives, and it really upset me.\nThen for some reason it became like Christians against non-Christians, which\nmakes no sense again, as the science doesn’t care what your religion is. It’s\nlike— Oh well, if you’re Christian then you don’t believe in COVID, you’re not\ngoing to get a vaccine, I used to be in church group where I would tell them the\nscience of certain things and how it corresponded with, they don’t talk to me. I\nused to be their president. They don’t talk to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=47.0,48.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: There’s been a lot of relationship changes over COVID?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=48.0,48.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Oh yes, my role is completely different now, and it’s confusing for me.\nBecause I was brought up again by a highly religious former nun. I always had a\nlot of faith. I was a scientist, but I reconciled it to my faith. Now what I’ve\nseen, a priest I used to really admire, flat out lies, and I’m like, what else\nare you lying to me about? I actually haven’t been to church in three years, and\nI don’t know how I feel about that. I don’t feel like those people want me\nthere. I feel ostracized, and yeah— if they know I’m from CDC, they immediately\nshut me out. Even the nicest lady I ever worked for, I called her, and I\nexplained everything to her, and I think she’s kind, but she doesn’t want to\ndeal with everybody’s else’s fallout in having me around. I am just a giant— I\ndon’t understand it. It doesn’t make sense if you look, again, I’m a scientist,\nI look at things as they are. If you look at what in my opinion Christ would\nhave said—yeah, I don’t understand it, it doesn’t make sense. It somehow got\nthat way, again, with the messaging and the communications. The science was not\nallowed to be talked about. I think it’s scary for people who aren’t scientists\nto know there’s something out there they can’t see that can kill them, and they\nhave the guy they elected telling them everything’s fine, it’s just a trick by\nthe opposition. It just became something it didn’t need to be. It became an\nembarrassment— it’s going to go down in American history as an absolute debacle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=48.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: The mental health, how’s your mental health?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Well, it was something I told people too, again outbreaks have rhythm.\nAt the back end of every outbreak, the people who survive have mental health\nchallenges. I knew it was going to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: This is a huge tidal wave of mental health problems. We’ve already had—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: In all kinds of different ways, just like people like me who had family\nwho doesn’t talk to them anymore. I mean, again, one of six kids, nobody talks\nto me. I haven’t seen my siblings or been at, if I, last thing I went to, with a\nmask on and everybody else didn’t have a mask on, I literally sat there, and\nnobody said a word to me. I am an outcast in my own family, from my job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: How are you dealing with that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I don’t know how I’m dealing with that. I just deal with it. I can’t\nchange that I tried, I told them the truth, they didn’t want to listen. I’ve\ntold my sister who is an antivaxxer, if my niece gets pertussis, I’ll call Child\nProtective Services [CPS], this is BS. I’m just a straight shooter with people,\nand if they don’t like it, they usually walk away. I think I intimidate people\nis what I’ve been told, because I will look them in the eye and tell them the\ntruth. People really don’t like that. I don’t understand why because I\nappreciate that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, I think I think a little different. I don’t know how my mental health’s\ndoing— I think I’m really struggling at the end of being polite so much. I\nneeded a couple months to just stare at the grass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Have you done that for yourself?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Haven’t really been able to. I took a week off and I just kind of\nstared at the grass. I have given up over 200 hours of annual leave because I\njust, all the overtime I got, they couldn’t pay, they ran out of money the first\nsummer during COVID to pay us for overtime, and then it had to be paid by your\nhome department, and they wouldn’t let you deploy if you had overtime, so I just\nlost it. I still have like 270 leave hours, and I don’t take any of it because,\nI still have outbreaks, they’re just coming one after another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: You still need your self-care. You have a dog.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I do have a sweet puppy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: I know that’s some source of self-care, a little bit downloading your\nproblems into their brain where they just look at you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: He’s the best. I love my Mulberry. He is, yes, every afternoon we have\nafter-work decompression puppy snuggle. He just knows, he’ll just come up and\nlet me put my head on him. At night he farts on my face, but that’s a dog. The\nhusband used to do that too, so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Just feels comfortable with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Light a candle and keep working. That’s a good point, he really does\nhelp tremendously. I don’t know, with my family, I just, a coping skill I have\nis I’m not fighting it. I don’t care. My conscience is clear, I didn’t do\nanything wrong, I never lied to them. They don’t like the story, they don’t have\nany respect for me, okay. It doesn’t bother me, I guess. Maybe I’m just really\ngood at shoving it down, I’m an Irish Catholic, I don’t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Possibly. There’s going to be lots for repercussion for future generations.\nThere’s going to be those missed parts that your daughter has— from that 1918\n[flu] pandemic, there was so much repercussions from that up and to the\ngenerations down, and how that reverberates. Do you have any kind of\ninclinations on how this is going to reverberate into future generations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, sadly I do. At least I have my guesses. I really feel like we lost\ndecades of trust. I feel like our mission to help people has been seriously set\nback. I think it’s going to take a full generation for people to start trusting\nus again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: That’s like twenty years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes, absolutely. It’s weird, I think we need to change our transparency\nfor people and meet them where they are. We’ve always been transparent -- but we\ndon’t meet people where they are. They don’t understand what we say. Our\nwebsite’s boring. It’s supposed to be written for a sixth-grade level, but I\ndon’t think most people understand sixth-grade science. I think we need to make\nit so it’s fun for them, and I don’t know, I don’t know how to say it other than\nI really feel like we need to meet people where they are. If they’re enjoying\nTikToks and funny ways of getting information out, great. Let’s hire somebody\nwho can bridge the gap. Here’s the science, can you make it funny and viral?\nSuper, that’s what I really said during the pandemic, we need to be doing\nTikToks on, you know, wearing a mask the right way. Be engaging, meet them where\nthey, but we have so many people who I think are so stuffy and so full of\nthemselves, and they want to be the strait-laced scientist. I’ll tell you what,\nI probably know more science than them. I don’t mind talking to people in the\nway that brings them in, because either your mission is to educate them and help\nthem, or not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=49.0,50.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: It’s part of prevention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=50.0,50.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, I mean, I think a lot of people, especially the ones who were\nlike, the uniforms are so full of themselves. They’re so full of themselves, and\nthey want their, I’m a serious scientist, and I’m going to do X, Y, Z. You know\nwhat, I can flip a hat on a dime, why can’t they? I don’t understand. You have\nto meet people where they are if you really care about getting the message out.\nWe have a big uphill battle, where I feel like we were respected. We are now a\njoke to people, which is hurtful to me, because I’ve dedicated my whole life\nhere and I do really love this agency and what we do. I hope we take some\nlessons from COVID, and take some opportunities to change, and not be this\nunchanging institution, but be an institution that serves people, and helps them\nwhere they are. They don’t need to know all the science I do, that’s my job. I\nhave to distill it and get it to them in a way that’s useful. They don’t need to\nknow all the dang—you know, the details on the flaA gene turns on with this operon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=50.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They don’t need to know that. They just need to know, don’t go to the community\npool. They need to distill down and deliver it in a way that will reach people.\nTo be honest, people need to be where they are, and right now, it’s like these\nTikToks and things that can catch on. You can still educate people and make it\nentertaining. The agency needs to change and get in line with that. My opinion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=51.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, and that’s what we’re here for. We’ve kind of really come to the time,\nand I wanted to ask, is there anything we haven’t covered that you want to put\ninto the historical record? We’ve gone through your mental health, we’ve gone\nthrough the misinformation, equity is not something that was part of it, your\nown health, reverberations for generations to come, the vaccine, masking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=51.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: I think it still boils down to what I just said. I really feel like I\nwould like to see the agency change its messaging and communication to where we\ncould get a group of people who are not subject matter experts like me, but I\ncould work with them and say, here’s what I’m trying to say. Can you make it\nsomething that people will listen to? We need to get our communication so that\nit’s useful. We know so much, but we don’t get it out, so what good is it?\nThat’s my bottom-line thing is I feel like we could take these lessons from\nCOVID. I don’t know how you prevent the political part that happened because I\ndon’t understand it. I don’t understand how that happened. I saw what happened,\nbut I just didn’t understand it. A bad leader is a bad leader. I would like to\nsay one more thing too. If we have a true public health emergency, and we’re\noperating in the EOC, I would like to see a law instituted where we could have\ntemporary powers to not have to wait for the state for certain things, we are\nnow in charge. This is what you do. If we had laws, we could have had better\ncontrol over this. Then we give up those powers when the microbe has gone back\ninto its reservoir. Temporary, yes, CDC’s now going to tell you what to do, and\nwe aren’t going to argue about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=51.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Temporary control over public health at the federal level?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Rather than the state running it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Right, I would like to see if we truly have an emergency and we have\nelected to turn on the EOC, I would like to see some code of federal regulations\ngive us some power, instead of saying pretty please. We don’t have to argue with\npeople about stuff, this is what you do. That would have worked so much better.\nThen you give up the power when the threat’s over. It’s not like I want to be a\nregulatory agency— I really don’t. We couldn’t do our job effectively without\nany muscles. Yes, I’d love to see that happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Q: Okay, thank you for being with me today, and thank you for being so honest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEVENS: Of course, no problem. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/transcript/69863/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[END OF INTERVIEW] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=52.0,52.0"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/index/85348","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["content172466211420240826-2043719-lslvw7.xml [English] [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/index/85348/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Background and Education","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551#t=60.0,314.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2849/collection_resources/134501/file/249551/index/85348/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Valerie Stevens describes her early interest in science, educational background, and path CDC. 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