{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/gq6qz2456w/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Murphy, Fred"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2011-11-16"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["As a PhD virologist and veterinarian, Dr. Fred Murphy had a unique perspective and role in CDC's history. Interviewed by Karen Torghele"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["oral history"]}}],"summary":{"en":["As a PhD virologist and veterinarian, Dr. Fred Murphy had a unique perspective and role in CDC's history. Interviewed by Karen Torghele"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/456/small/MurphyFred.jpg?1727919570","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 20111116_Murphy_Fred.mp3"]},"duration":5283.44817,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/247/456/small/MurphyFred.jpg?1727919570","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-globalhealthchronicles.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/247/456/original/20111116_Murphy_Fred.mp3?1722773568","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":5283.44817,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["[AssemblyAI Transcript] 20111116 Murphy, Fred [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I think a glass will be water instead of coffee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3.28,7.31"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e This is Karen Torghaili, and we're in Galveston, Texas. It's November 16, 2011, and I'm here with Doctor Frederick Murphy, who is a DVM and PhD and worked at CDC in the 1960s and then came back later. So the first thing I wanted to ask Doctor Murphy was about how he became involved in public health and how he got involved with the Centers for Disease Control. In the beginning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=7.31,38.53"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it was absolute happenstance with just one step leading to the next without a master plan. I went to the College of Agriculture at Cornell because it was free. And when I got there, I had to choose a major, and I chose microbiology, I think because I knew it was hard and not that I knew much about it. And it was a famous, say, non medical microbiology center at the time, food microbiology, soil, etcetera. And after three years of that, just on a whim, maybe a conversation with a friend, I applied to vet school and was accepted. And I remember the admissions officer saying, ah, you know, we can afford one scientist in the class. So I was known in the class, you know, as the scientist, and I. But I enjoyed veterinary school very much. I liked the infectious disease side of microbiology, which at the time was mostly bacterial. So the day I graduated, the very next day, I was drafted into the army veterinary Corpse, and some weeks later ended up in San Antonio, Texas, at the fourth army medical lab, and that year was 59. And it turns out that this was an incredible place. The colonel had been a good friend of Robert Kisling, Athenae CDC, who had just invented the rabies fluorescent antibody test. In this would be probably 1960. The first paper was published in 1959, and this laboratory was the first lab outside of CDC to have this test. And it was just as good then as it is now. It was the most avant garde diagnostic test in all of medicine, immunofluorescence. And it also had such great purpose, because when a test was positive, you started prophylaxis on the person that was bitten, and in virtually every case, the person's life was saved. The vaccines were good enough at that time, not as good as today's, but good enough. And so there was a lot of rabies in the Texas and surrounding areas in those days. So specimens would come in, we would do this fluorescent antibody test and report out. And when there was human exposure, my boss, who was a vet, and myself, we practiced human medicine because the physicians we dealt with out in the army hospitals didn't know anything. So that's probably it was a formative time in my life because of that responsibility. And to my knowledge, no one ever died. One example, a dog went into fury on the quadrangle at Fort Bliss in El Paso and bit 25 people. We got that dog's head that night by your airplane. And in those days, you would do the test immediately, whatever time of day or night. And now a lot of health departments, you know, do their rabies tests once a week, which I certainly don't understand. And that test was very positive. So middle of the night, on the phone with the clinicians and what they had to do, the same thing we do today. You clean the wounds, you use globulin. At that time, it was horse globulin and vaccine. You start vaccine, and you do a lot of, say, amelioration of anxiety, both not just the patient, but the doctor on the ceiling with anxiety and the great. Not just the sense of doing something good, but the sense of responsibility that it gave me. I was young, naive, kind of stupid. And I think most people would answer a question about what was the formative thing in your life? And you're supposed to answer with a story about your great mentor. And I had fine mentors, but I always answer that question with the story of learning real responsibility in a real world setting early on. And then, of course, it was peace time. So the army was harmless. And the best of all, I met Irene while I was in the army in San Antonio, and she was in nursing school at incarnate word. University of the incarnate word. And that was certainly the best thing that ever happened to me in my life. So when I got out, two year itch draftee, and ended up going to the University of California for a PhD, which was also just great. And I was just writing my thesis, getting ready to start to think, what are we going to do next? And I got a phone call from Telford work, head of virology at CDC. And I recall there wasn't even a phone in my office lab. The phone was down in the secretary's office, down there, answering this long distance call. Exotic. And within five or ten minutes of him describing who he was and what he represented, he offered me a job. And about five minutes more, Chad. I accepted. No interview, no visit. Went home that night and told Irene, we're going to Atlanta. And she said, what? Because this is 1961. No, 1964. Three years of PhD study in the middle there. And Atlanta had a bad reputation at that, that time, deservedly so. And. But we were going. And, you know, it turned out to be best thing, another of the best things that's ever happened, because responsibility just grew. I was, I think, maybe the only person ever hired right out of school as a branch chief. And the circumstances of that was that at the time, Telford work took a whole bunch of experienced virologists and made a hepatitis branch. This is before anyone knew anything about hepatitis. There were no viruses. Everybody knew there were going to be at least two viruses by that time, but it turns out that they're really hard to grow. And it was only years later that Nobel prizes went to the people who actually made the key discoveries, especially for hepatitis B. So the people who work Telford work, put into this hepatitis group spent years of frustration, and I assume the branch that they had all, some of them had vacated. So I had to hire staff. I had lots of money for equipment. One of the best parts for me, turns out, was that Telford work had ordered an electron microscope, the first one at CDC. Most people didn't know what it was, but he had not thought about what to do with it. So it was sitting there in a crate, a couple, several crates, and so he gave it to me. And, you know, I figured out, hired one woman, Sylvia Whitfield, and we realized that, you know, you had to do a lot of minor construction and plumbing. And so we did all that and set it up, and away we went. It was between the other tools of the pathologist. I was an amateur pathologist at the time. The ability to do electron microscopy as well as light microscopy was just great. And there's only a few places in the world that were doing this on viruses, so it was the right time and place. And, of course, nobody gets better materials than CDC. The CDC of that time was incredibly cooperative and open and collegiate with all the colleagues around the country and around the world. Somebody would isolate a virus out of sick or dying person and try to identify it, couldn't, and sent it to CDC. And it was superb. The way everyone got fair credit and accolades, went back and forth. You did a great job isolating this virus. You did a great job in characterizing this virus. And then the next guys would be designing a diagnostic test. And so the laboratory end of things often supported the field work of others, not just at CDC. We might get a virus from South Africa, and the. The identification of the virus would be so and so, and then the diagnostic test would be of most use to south african colleagues. And away it went. And all of the natural history and understanding of the virus in nature came from that. And then, of course, that's the beginnings of intervention, which in virology is prevention, prevention, control. So it was marvelous. And not just internal. Not internal to CDC. In fact, in my experience, it turned out that because of the kind of fear work being done by the epidemiologists of CDC, who were mostly working domestically, there were new viruses came out of that, and a lot of them were sort of. I wouldn't say boring, but commonplace. Whereas if you had, I worked for many years with a fellow named Bob Schope, who was at Yale at the time, and every virus he ever sent me turns out to be a eureka. Wow sort of thing. So those were great days. My branch developed. I always had cord officers, the MDs, drafted into the us public health service at this time of Vietnam. And through no fault of mine, they turned out to be on their way to great fame. All of them became big shots in the world of academic medicine and great friends and great people. And the whole division of viral diseases was full of people like that. That had to be considered one of the golden eras.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=38.53,869.53"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e How long had Telford work been at CDC?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=869.53,874.13"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Only a couple of years. The founding of virology at CDC was under the chair of Morris Schaefer, who had built the. I think it was considered because the work might have a bit of security need. They first built it at an air force base in Montgomery, Alabama. There are pictures in the archives of old wooden buildings. And actually rather famous people went to Montgomery mostly as draftees also. And some of them who were gone by the time I got to CDC went on to fame, too. And Marshaefer himself went on to great distinction in a day when virology was certainly simpler than we think of it today, premolecular erade. But they did good stuff. And then I got to CDC in 64. But building seven, the virology building had only been completed sometime in 1960, so it really looked new. We thought it was pretty nice. Years later, the lament over the decline of the building relative to what one saw elsewhere in the country really stood out. It had been built, you know, sort of government style, you know, low bid, pretty simple building and things like biosafety, Washington, not great. As Walter Dowdle always said, biosafety is 90% how the individual works, and that if you might be working at one of the old CDC hoods, but if you knew what you were doing and you didn't make aerosols of what you were working with or drip viruses on your lab coat, etcetera, you know, it's virtually as safe as modern high containment. What you didn't have in those days was any backup, you know, because if somebody did do something stupid, somebody was going to get sick, which is obviated by modern systems. So what went on in building seven in those days was highly focused on polio, smallpox, arboviruses, encephalitis viruses, the domestic ones, which would be eastern and western, and venezuelan equine encephalitis viruses and influenza. So right from the beginning, together with the epidemiologic instincts, you always knew you were working on something important. The mortality and morbidity data proved that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=874.13,1106.44"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When you came to CDC, were you given any introductory course or information about how things worked or any of the history of how CDC came to be?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=1106.44,1120.59"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e No, that's a good question, because it was absolutely instilled by osmosis and a kind of mentorship that a wonderful fellow, sort of like the number two person in the arbovirus unit, Philip Coleman, who later he was on his way to greatness at CDC and for family reasons, had moved back to Virginia. It was a great loss. But he sort of took me under his wing and told me, this is how the place works, and then also taught me some of the technologies of how to work with viruses. Kind of stuff groups of people at CDC did, how to grow viruses, how to quantitate them, etcetera. Meanwhile, there were other people who taught me other things, but how to run a branch and be a supervisor, there was no lesson. It wasn't the kind of thing that, say, my boss, Telford work, would ever even think to mention. So if there were, but I don't recall early on any personnel actions and need for getting out the book. What are my rights and what are my employees rights? I don't remember any of that. They all enjoyed the work, and we all got along. I think maybe early on, one of the bugaboos of all of science started to show up about who gets credit for this work, whose name is on the paper and in what order. Over the years, the code of what it means to be the first author or the last author, or next to last author or second author has changed. But, you know, within the context of the day, there were some of the supertechs who thought, you know, that they should be independent investigators. And in many of those cases, it was obvious that. That they didn't have the background. The young physicians who were always in the lab were really strong in basic medicine, and they were excellent clinicians. They would sit around at morning coffee and talk about where they had done their residencies. And it was who's who, and it always proved by their subsequent lives that they were going to be lifelong great scientists and clinicians. But there wasn't much friction at all in those days. And it was also obvious very early on that the division of viral diseases was different from anywhere else at CDC. And if those of us who were down in the trenches, we would meet our colleagues from, say, bacterial diseases or parasitic diseases in the course of a year's life at CDC. But that sort of didn't matter too much in the course of the work. These other sciences were already so different from virology. You know, today virology is closest linked to molecular biology and cell biology, and not to bacteriology and certainly not to parasitology, including malariology. So those kind of associations have evolved a lot, but were already trending. The relationship with the epidemiologists was different again because there was a high turnover. EIS officers come and go. There was always, right from the beginning, under the invention of Alec Langmuir, a sense that a CDC epidemiologist could do anything. He may have spent two years doing foodborne disease investigation. And then you sent him. There was no qualm in sending him out to a mosquito borne disease outbreak. And that worked because there was usually a scene. Your virologist, all virologists, were half epidemiologists who sort of kept that all straight. And if you look back at the literature, you see that the comprehensive natural history of the important disease, viral diseases of our country were unraveled in those days. Disease by these people. It could actually attribute particular conquests of understanding disease with particular individuals. Bob Kisling, Robert Kisling is the one who unraveled the very complex natural history of eastern equine encephalitis, which is a terrible disease. There's no great epidemics, but the mortality rate is very high, and it's a very complex natural history involving mosquitoes that hang out in swamps and transfer of the virus to mosquitoes that are in your backyard and that sort of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=1120.59,1505.57"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When you're talking about mosquitoes in the water systems, you know that when CDC started, it was malaria in war areas, and there was drainage that was done of the sitting water where mosquitoes may be multiplying. And people were told about swings that would accumulate, places where mosquitoes would.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=1505.57,1533.86"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, that was nothing that was not based on anything new that, you know, I'm a virology loyalist here. But the great story is 1898, spanish american war, eight or 10,000 soldiers under Teddy Roosevelt go to Cuba, Havana and wars over in a year. And more american soldiers died of yellow fever and malaria than from bullets. And the senior army surgeon general appointed Walter Reed and three other colleagues the yellow fever commission. They went to Havana and within six or eight months. It's a long story in there. Great story. One of the great virology stories of all. They discovered yellow fever virus, the first human virus discovered, and its transmission. In its transmission, they were helped by a cuban doctor, Carlos Finley, within six months of that work, proving that yellow fever is transmitted only by mosquitoes and maybe blood transfusion, but no other way. And that the sanitation, medical sanitation officers, eradicated yellow fever from Havana by eliminating all mosquito habitat. Water barrels, gutters, puddles in the yard. In a sort of military way, they just swept through the city and got rid of everything. And this yellow fever incidence dropped to zero. Within about eight or nine years, all of Cuba was free of yellow fever. And then they wanted to build the Panama Canal. And the French had actually started it and stopped because something like 20,000 people had died of yellow fever and some of malaria. I don't know the number. So the head of the sanitation corps in Cuba went to Panama and did the same thing, and within six months eradicated yellow fever from the isthmus and allowing the building of the Panama Canal, which was the greatest engineering feat of the 20th century, much bigger than boulder dam, hoover dam, and all because they controlled mosquitoes. And at that time, they were killing malaria mosquitoes and yellow fever mosquitoes working together. I never read anything where anybody discriminated against the different mosquitoes, even though they have very different habitats and whatnot. And malaria mosquitoes are harder to get rid of. So when you go up to World War Two in Savannah in the south, and malaria, the methods were still this military style, where you had large numbers of people doing what they were told with government approval, to trod on, you know, property rights, and got rid of the mosquitoes, not eradicated, but at least pushed them back out of areas where the people lived.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=1533.86,1782.82"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When you. And the political situation at the time was the beginning of World War two and the association with the US Public Health Service and getting rid of malaria was what happened at that time to help get rid of malaria, is that your understanding? And do you know who is most responsible for establishing the malaria in war? Malaria control in war infected areas, I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=1782.82,1818.816"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Don'T know much about. There was this continuum from 1900 in Cuba up to 1914 in Canal zone, to 1940 in Savannah and elsewhere, there were a lot of people that carried over. One of them was Henry Rose Carter, who had provided one of the crucial pieces of information that led Walter Reed and his colleagues to the original discoveries of the virus and the mosquito transmission. He was a public health service officer who was around up until that time. And then, of course, somewhere in there, Joseph Mount came along as the founder of CDC. And I only know, I don't know enough, I'm not the one to ask about him, but somebody, even if you had to do that as a library search, that will be very interesting. There's a lot about him and a lot of dramatic stuff because he also linked with the emerging medical microbiology community of the country. Somewhere in there, maybe only, maybe only 20 years before that, was the founding of the American Society for Microbiology, which is today is the largest non md based society. And biology and the founding, they were all man father. Founding fathers of the American Society for Microbiology included quite a few public health people, public health officers. The founder of NIH was one of those founding members, people like Joseph Mountain. And I think a couple of his first colleagues were members. This was a, you know, started off as people having cigars and brandy in a smoke filled room after dinner. You know, it's a different world. But the, probably all of those, the american, great american society started that way and have become gender neutral and democratic in years. It was pretty dictatorial in those days, but it was very important that these key players like Joseph Kenyon, the founder of NIA, and Joseph Mountain, founder of CDC, were considered leaders and peers of the very best people in medical micro. The academic infectious disease leadership of that day in academia was marvelous also, you know, Osler and Hopkins and Welch. And then a whole bunch of these people of the early 19 hundreds ended up at the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research in New York and came and went. And that must have been a, that was the, the research institution of the, the US for many years. And the people who you see on their faculty lists at one time would end up as the dean of a medical school later somewhere else. And the influences that Hopkins had early on and the Rockefeller Institute just dominated this whole science as they spread out almost entirely in the east.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=1818.816,2092.959"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have any information about what Joe Mountain was like as a person? How he did his work, how he worked with others?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2092.959,2101.199"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not the right one to ask that. I've read some of the papers of that, but I haven't studied it for your time. No, but I love this history and I can't do it justice because it's a long career, too. It's the same Joseph Kenyon at NIH. He said, well, he founded NIH, but what did he do for 40 years was incredible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2101.199,2138.36"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Did you know Alexander Langmuir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2138.36,2144.248"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, he was. When I arrived at CDC, he was maybe at his peak. I know he was certainly in his influence and in his, you know, his sort of fatherly role of the newly emerging eis. But it wasn't just EIS, it was epidemiology. And Toto at CDC, he was the father figure, the brains of the outfit, the sort of like the general. The epidemiologic side of CDC was more of a. It was not an academic model. It was more like a military model. You know, you're assigned to do this, now go do it. But without the hand, the salutes. But it actually was the key, I think, to allowing CDC to respond very quickly. I mean, CDC was grounded on acute infectious diseases. You know, you've got an outbreak and you've got to get there. Academia is awful in that regard. You know, if you said there was an outbreak of West Nile encephalitis in Houston today, UTMB would probably call for a meeting in two weeks, because that's the first time everyone was going to be in town, and CDC and the Texas health department would be there this afternoon. So, you know, that was true from the beginning. And it was absolutely unique then, because state health departments, with few exceptions, there were a couple of great health departments at that time. New York State, New York City, La county. But CDC was pioneered this rapid investigation which. And then, I think early on it went, it cycled between a concept of, we go in and characterize the outbreak, who, what, where, when stuff, and then we turn it over to the local authorities to fix it. And then there were other areas when CDC did a lot of actual work on the prevention and control aspects of dealing with an outbreak. And then another era would come along where they backed off from that. Again, all of that is politics and a relationship with state health departments. And then it got to the point where, you know, if there was an outbreak in a state that had a weak health department, then Alec Languor and his EIS officers would be invited in. And if it was in New York City, they'd never get invited. So it's pretty much the same now, except, you know, where CDC is welcome and where it's not, you know, keeps changing a bit, which has allowed CDC to do less of the mundane. I used to call it food poisoning at the picnic kind of epi, which is good for training beginners, but is not good for getting a paper in the New England Journal. And CDC then in recent years has been freer to work on harder, harder diseases. And we certainly have had those, you think of AIDS and the great days of hepatitis research, really difficult stuff. CDC had great roles in the epidemiology of all these tough diseases. And it gets worse as you shift to more and more chronic diseases. EIs type acute disease epidemiology is not used, can't use ePi info to prove that smoking causes cancer. So academia has really been the leader in evolving the methods for studying chronic diseases. CDC may have a unit to deal with smoking and cancer, but right across the street, national, the American Cancer Society, and right up the road in Bethesda is the National Cancer Institute, which is huge. So in chronic diseases, it's other players. And then a lot of academia has evolved the highly mathematical epidemiology that suits investigation of chronic disease. CDC is doing a lot to get into that world, but I don't think it dominates it like it does with acute disease. And then, of course, your children grow up and the good state health departments, almost all state epidemiologists or former eis, the good ones, can at least they think they can handle outbreaks just as well. So that's what happens. It's kind of like the surgeons that graduate from Hopkins open surgical practices in Baltimore, and all of a sudden you have competition. So CDC has competition. That evolved. It evolved separately from the other trend of possessiveness. I think that's at a much later time. This is not the place to go into that, but it has become a real issue at CDC. I isolated this virus and I'm not going to give it to you until I'm finished publishing not just the first paper, but all the papers I want to publish on it today. You can't get viruses out of China. They want to do them themselves.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2144.248,2563.08"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And it wasn't that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2563.08,2564.816"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Absolutely nothing. And that involved everyone. Every branch had that quality of, how can I help you? We can easily work together on this and common knowledge that the CDC partner wasn't going to trample anybody. I thought it was great. If I look at my cv, I think I worked with hundreds. I actually made a list, you know, co authors on papers. I think the list is over 200 people that I worked with from all over the us. So that's the way it should be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2564.816,2606.598"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. What do you think about the location of CDC in Atlanta versus being nearer to NIH and the other national organizations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2606.598,2620.328"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we always thought that it was at pros and cons, that being close to the appropriations subcommittee was one of the great assets that NIH had and has that I went to when I was director of the National center for Infectious Diseases. I went with the CDC director at that time, Bill Roper, to several of those hearings. And to watch the NIH leaders hobnob with the congressmen made you absolutely understand that they weren't meeting for the first time, that the NIH leaders were chatting it up with congressmen and their staffers, you know, throughout the year. And even the very best directors of CDC over the years were they worked at it, but didn't have that advantage of being close. The important aspect of this was that in a matter that over and over and over, a congressman would say something that absolutely implied that he didn't really know what CDC did. I mean, that's firsthand. I was there. And I can remember Bill Roper or Jim Mason explaining to a new, you know, some staffer, appropriation staffer. They're not kids. We don't just wash your hand signs in public places. But it was an endless battle that was never won. So the advantage of being away from DC was that, especially in the hands of people like Alec Langmuir or Dave sensor or Jim Mason, Bill Roper was that if something happened where you had to react fast, the old saying, you know, it is better to act and apologize than to seek permission. And there was a lot of that when I was at the University of California. At the time of the anthrax episodes of 2001, the state health department of California carried that to an extreme. They said, we have this great advantage that no one from CDC or Washington can get here in less than 6 hours. So we've got this. We've got this window and we can go do it. Plus, states have a lot of legal privilege too, you know, which was only part of joke.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2620.328,2815.522"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2815.522,2816.73"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e The state of California did not call on CBC very much except for money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2816.73,2825.25"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e When you think about people, people that influenced you, who were there from the beginning at CEC or in the early days, who comes to mind and who influenced you the most?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2825.25,2838.01"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I mentioned Telford work, that phone call. And my first job. My first job and great job it was. I never knew how he had learned about me. I was just an obscure veterinarian graduate student in Davis, California, who didn't have a telephone in his office. He never told me. I can't remember if I ever asked. I wish I knew. But the so Tophert work, who had been a Rockefeller fellow, had worked in Egypt, East Africa, in India as an arbovirologist and a great naturalist. His movies of the American Condor shot when he was a student at Stanford or in the Smithsonian, now as the definitive films of nearly extinct bird. So he was a true naturalist. And in arbovirology, you have to know about mosquitoes, you have to know about birds. Most of these are birds, mosquito, human transmissions, and yet they know about little animals. A lot of the other viruses have reservoirs in little animals. And so he was a dominant figure in the virology end of CDC, and he was a tough enough guy where he argued a lot with Alec Glagmuirdhe substance, you know, who's going to do what? And with the. Don't need to go into the battle between the relationship between lab data and field data. That was certainly very important part of the fabric of the early CDC, an issue never resolved until Walter Dowdle created the National center for Infectious Diseases to involve all of its needed epidemiology along with the labs. That was his invention. Great idea, hard to implement, deserves great credit for that. So the other early players, the, all the labs were called the laboratory branch, and the director was Penticoko, a Finn, finnish MD is he spelled that p e n t I, good finnish name and his last name, Koko Kokk. And real character, much more aligned with bacterial diseases. And he had roots in epidemiology, too. And when I first got there, his assistant, his principal deputy was Jim Mason, who eventually left, who was an excellent epidemiologist even then. Md epidemiology, but perhaps not eiscus, the timing. He may have learned Azepi before Eis was founded, I'm not sure. And, you know, Jim Mason left for many years and then came back as director of CDC, one of my, I think one of the great directors. So that was the front office of the thing called lab branch. And the leaders of the. The units that actually did the work in virology were, they were people of the day where virology was, say, a non molecular. It was a diagnostic science, discovery and characterization, a lot of serology. So if you had to look at each of the important viruses of the day from early on. James Nakano was in smallpox, one of my dear, dear friends, one of the great guys ever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=2838.01,3151.95"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a picture of him, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3151.95,3153.374"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yep, we had. And I was sort of his backup because we would get hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of specimens as the smallpox program eradication program went forward around the world. And, you know, they were mostly physicians who were out there, vaccinating but they were also doing the. Is this smallpox? And if it is, we're going to vaccinate everyone in this circle around it, ring vaccination system that Bill Fagie helped invent. But when we would get these hundreds and hundreds of specimens, most of them smallpox were positive. And then as the years went by, more and more of them were chicken pox, because even if a kid had a rash that didn't quite look like smallpox, it would be sent to CDC just to make sure, because once in a while, that would be smallpox, and then eventually, not fantastic. The greatest achievement of humankind, in my view, at a time in the 18th century, was it, 25% of all deaths in the United Kingdom were from smallpox. Whole indian tribes in the western hemisphere were wiped out, etcetera. And the clinical end of smallpox, it's just a terrible disease. So then you had polio. Jim McConnell was also a great polio researcher, along with others. I'd actually have to have some kind of a. I'm not sure I have all of the names from the beginning. You know who founded the polio program? I think it was Morris Schaeffer in Montgomery. Since the polio program was big by the time they moved to Atlanta in 1960. Rabies big from the beginning. Not just Jim Steele and rabies epidemiology, but Robert Kisling, the first guy to grow rabies virus in cell culture. And he invented the immunofluorescence test. And, you know, he did all kinds of other seminal things with rabies. Very, very insightful, smart guy. A wonderful person. Ended up. He was director of the division of viral diseases for a while later, and he's still alive and retired, I think, somewhere up near Marietta.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3153.374,3331.67"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3331.67,3332.59"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't have his address. Charlie Callash, I can tell you. Yeah, Charlie, he is a better database. Christmas list or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3332.59,3343.776"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I've got his email.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3343.776,3346.36"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e You have kisslings. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3346.36,3348.696"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3348.696,3350.68"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e From last I heard. You know, he's still of sound mind, so there's other units. You know, Larry could. I wonder if Larry. What he would say about the founding of the respiratory disease program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3350.68,3376.37"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, he was there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3376.37,3378.098"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think I know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3378.098,3381.37"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you know someone named Ross Buck?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3381.37,3384.33"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I haven't heard that name in 30 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3384.33,3389.298"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Tell me about Ross Buckley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3389.298,3391.342"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I can't. I don't know enough. You tell me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3391.342,3398.7"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a name that one of the people on our team would like to know more about him. What's his name?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3398.7,3406.492"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, he may, if I'm not mistaken, he may be reflective of another aspect of the nature of circumental CDC, where you had the scientists who had come in from all over the country and the staffing, from the plumbers to the secretaries to the admin officers, who, in the end, had a lot of power because they held the budget, were all southerners, were all local, and that was an era of where the difference between Yankees and southerners was much greater. It was an era of racism. You know, when building seven finished in 1960, between the time of the design of the building and its completion, the federal law went into effect, starting to break down racial segregation in federal buildings. So that building seven had four bathrooms at the end of the hall. And by the time I was there, only three or four years after the building opened, and there were two doors over here, and they said, men and Menta. But you know what they said when it was opened? White men, black men and women were saying. So the. One of the senior admin officers for Penteco and all that branch was an out and out racist. You know, I. Government hiring, we had, you know, quite a few black people, you know, working usually at the lowest level jobs. But there were some technicians, some of the famous technicians of the division of viral diseases aren't there, from the beginning, were black, but no racism at all within the labs or in fieldwork. But the course fieldwork was really difficult because there was one black technician who used to go into the field, but he'd have to stay in a different hotel, stuff like that. Couldn't eat in the same restaurant. So that all was changing fast. But the lingering aspect of that were these old southern administrative type officers born and raised in the Atlanta area. And then a lot of the technicians were from the southeast. One of my first technicians, I won't use his name, but I actually can think of it. He was a fine technician, but he was raised on a chicken farm in north Georgia, broiler farm, famous broiler area. And when he graduated from high school, he wanted to go to college. And his father refused to give him the money to go to college, but did give him a brand new trans am, a very expensive car. He wanted his son, you know, to be flashy, you know, attract girls and have the kind of life that he wished he had had. But when his son said, I want to become a biologist, he would give him nothing. But the son went and did it on his own, and he eventually went through the world of the technician of the day and made a great success of himself. So that was a different. You don't hear those kind of stories anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3406.492,3679.86"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e But it's always surprising that it was so recent in our memory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3679.86,3685.468"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Life goes by fast, doesn't it? Yeah. You know, the city of Atlanta. My wife Irene and I used to chat that when we first went to Atlanta, the Atlanta symphony was awful. The San Antonio music scene was way ahead. The Metropolitan Opera used to come to San Antonio in that day. And you went to Atlanta and the symphony was in a building that on other nights was used for wrestling, and you still had the smell, old sweat. And the chairs were wooden folding chairs that squeaked, and it almost didn't matter because the music was so bad. And you know what? How many years after that did Robert Shaw come to Atlanta? And, you know, that's one of the great Atlanta miracles, you know, because within a couple of years, years, you know, they built the Woodruff center. They, you know, it was not, it was probably only maybe ten years after Robert Shaw arrived that, you know, they were winning great awards, especially for choral music, the Robert Shaw Corhel. And to go to the symphony hall in Atlanta today is, I think it's one of the, it really gets me because it brings Saul's memories back of incredible change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3685.468,3794.03"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That Joshua Bell there this fall can't beat that question. So when you say Atlanta had a terrible reputation when you moved there, was part of it racial?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3794.03,3817.328"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, a lot of it was racial that I recall very well coming home one night and said, we're leaving. Be damned if I'm going to live in a state with Lester Maddox as governor. He was running, and I think it was the next Saturday, we were walking on the square in the lanega, and here he comes down the street heading right at us. What am I going to do? And he was carrying an armload of axe handles. That was his symbol of his, of his candidacy, that an axe handle was the way you kept blacks in place. And he won and he was reelected. And Irene says, calm down. This too shall pass. And she was right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3817.328,3881.78"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you talk to him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3881.78,3883.054"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Hell, no. I think we turned and went down a side street. He was here. I'm living in Texas now, where we still have lots of weird politics, but Georgia emerged through times that were not, you know, they're still fighting the civil war when we got there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3883.054,3912.88"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e It's still. Still happening. Did you, did you ever happen to go to itch away plantation where they, it was owned by Robert Woodruff, and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3912.88,3928.456"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a second one down. It's down in the middle of the state, Banks county. Yeah. You know, I had, I was the one who founded the board of scientific directors of the NCID using the NIH model, the director and Walter Dowdle, who was always my boss, by then, he would have been deputy director. They thought it was crazy, it turned out. Now people say, you know, it may have been the best thing I ever did as an administrator. So I actually had Joe Jones from the Woodruff foundation on the board, and Louis Sullivan, former secretary, who was president of Morehouse, DA Henderson and Phil Russell. The board was really Gayle Castle, who's who, and they did a great job, but it also allowed us to hobnob with those kind of people, to hobnob with the powers in Atlanta, which is all Woodruff derived. So I got to know Beaufale Jones, and Mister Woodruff was dead by then, but I used and all the other guys, I'm on a board at Cornell with some of those same people of that era, and all of those kind of people had these huge plantations, some in South Carolina. One of the Winthrops, the heir of the Winthrop family money, he had a tree farm on the Georgia South Carolina border, which was 100 sq. Mi. He didn't measure acres. They used to have air fields in the middle of the forest because it was so big. Mister Woodruff's place in middle West Georgia, Washington, I think 100 sq. Mi, it's been converted into a conservation eco park. So that's good. But my sensitivity of this subject jumps ahead. When I was older and could appreciate this, how the rise of Emory University was so entwined with Woodruff and how it worked was just beautiful. It was so subtle. Once I was in the Woodruff headquarters down at Peachtree center, carpets about three inches deep, so quiet and peaceful. And we spent a whole afternoon with Beaufolay Jones, Joe Jones and a few other executives of Woodruff. And the people I was with were from this institute at Cornell, which they had been funding for 50 years. And in the course of that afternoon, no one ever mentioned money. It was all stories. And, you know, the director of the institute at Cornell got his check the next week. Big, very big, without ever mentioning it. Other places I've been, University of California development officers are different. You know, the first thing they do is establish how much they want to get out of this person, and then it's kind of blunt. But this was not done that way. It was the southern genteel way. And Emory was built like that. Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=3928.456,4181.942"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, great stories. So Beaufilay Jones in Joe Jones.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4181.942,4191.11"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Beaufollay was the most powerful guy in Atlanta at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4191.11,4194.574"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e And he.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4194.574,4195.374"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e After Woodruff died, yeah, but he was. He had been a professional associate of Mister Woodruff. And Joe Jones was Mister Woodruff's personal assistant, who, upon Woodruff's death, was endowed with quite a chunk of the money. He was a wonderful person. And both these guys were absolutely loyal to CDC, just. Just like everyone in Atlanta, except their feelings really mattered. Not so much money, because that would have almost been illegal any. You know, except there are. I'm not sure I should. Yeah, there's a statute of limitations. You know, I. When we finished building 15, I wanted to have a symposium. You know, I'd seen this sort of done at other institutions and universities, built a great new building and have a scientific symposium to go with the celebration. You know, the politicians come, you know, the two us senators came to cut the ribbon for the new building here in UTMB. But then the next day, you want a scientific symposium, bring in all the big shots to show them your building and show them what you're going to do. But how do you do that on a federal budget? Almost anything is illegal. So I talked to Joe Jones and I said, I want to have a symposium. And, you know, the great auditorium at CDC is free, I think I. Since it's scientific symposium, we can pay their airfares. No honorary area, but I'd really like to have a fancy dinner. And I said, joe, there's no way where this can compete with anything you do. For Cornell, that would have been a conflict of interest. He says, give me a day. He calls me the next day and he says, there's a foundation, part of the Woodruff world that only gives money in it to cause his in it Atlanta. So therefore Cornell would never. And they'd be delighted to pay for their fancy dinner.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4195.374,4350.206"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, nice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4350.206,4350.926"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So I had like 200 people in a fancy restaurant down, or like a hotel ballroom, you know, with a string quartet and booze. And CDC never touched the money, so it was almost legal, probably was illegal, but the money did not touch federal hands. But the only way you could do what other do at CDC what everyone else in the country would have done. Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4350.926,4395.602"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That was a good idea. So what was Beaujolais Jones like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4395.602,4401.178"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, fantastic. I went. One of the new buildings at Amory was being dedicated. Some of those buildings are from the pest control Rollins monies. This was the first of the new medical research buildings at Emory, which were called Woodruff. And they put up a circus tent outside for the dedication. And I was invited because of my friendship with Joe Jones. And that was one of the. The director CDC was there, and maybe the deputy not many CDC people there. And you saw the power structure of Atlanta at work. Everybody who was somebody, Andy Young and all of the, all of the powerful people of Atlanta where they there in that tent having champagne and hearing a couple of short speeches and cutting the ribbon. And the Woodruff people and the Emory people really didn't know who was who and how to do it. It was a cross section of people that I had never seen together any other time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4401.178,4498.58"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e So they worked together on this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4498.58,4501.38"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, Woodruff and Emery. And at the time, over the years, starting in the eighties, Emory moved up as a medical center and as a university, it moved up from, you know, somewhere down in the middle of the national rankings to where the medical school moved into the top 20. Every time. There's always, in medicine, there's like 125 medical schools. And instead of having the top ten, you have a top 20 because that's where there's sort of a natural line somewhere in there. But every time somebody moves up, somebody has to move down. And to move into the top 20 is a big deal. And Emery did it. And the lesson was to do that costs a lot of money, which they deserve. NIH research budget, for example. Emory is in the top 20. So it's been a great thanks to Woodruff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4501.38,4578.322"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4578.322,4580.73"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And how that influenced. They were incredibly proud of CDC. And these kind of guys had a lot of clout in Washington. If Beaufolay Jones would call, you know, the two senators of that time, Russell, you know, the Russell office building. And the other us senator was also very powerful. I can't quite remember his name, but it was the kind of thing where Beaufolay would Jones would just call them and say, you know, we've got the CDC here in Atlanta. I want you to do this for them or do that for them. That was the way it worked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4580.73,4628.43"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Then it would get done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4628.43,4629.694"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4629.694,4632.87"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Interesting times. Well, as we're kind of wrapping up here, because I know we've taken over an hour, are there any questions you think I should ask you that you'd like to address?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4632.87,4654.24"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, somewhere along the way, there is the sense that the division of viral Rickettsial diseases was different. It was not appreciated as such by others in the epidemiology side or the other labs, which were more conventional. And it was good having our own building because we didn't care. But it became a very distinguished research center. And that all depends on the people and some few who are still there. But I do, without knowing much, I hope or worry about the next generation. There are going to be people like Larry Anderson and Olin Q and Mark Polanch and Nancy Cox are these kind of. Some who started out as epidemiologists, some as basic scientists. Are they going to populate viral diseases into the future the way it was in the times? I remember, because they were world class people. When I was head of virology, I hired five graduates of the University of Wisconsin graduate program, considered the best molecular country at the time. They all became famous, so. And they were anxious to come to CDC. And one of them, for example, Steve Monroe, who has become a senior administrator, in the first month that he came to CDC, he was sent off to the national meeting of the state lab directors. And I didn't know until he was gone. I said, what a dangerous thing, this group. Very political, very old fashioned. They don't know anything about molecular biology. They're never going to communicate. We should have sent some older person who understood that territory. Well, he came back and it was nothing except laudatory comments that in a couple of weeks he had figured out how to. You say one thing to a bunch of molecular biologists, you say something different to a bunch of. Of politicians. And I think a lot of the smart young people in the division of Ira Rickettsial diseases understood this sort of intuitively. Maybe that's why they came in the first place. They wanted to conquer diseases. And that was so important and so magical. It was part of why, I think, you know, it still says CDC on my t shirt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4654.24,4868.48"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e That's a good way to sum it up. Thanks very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4868.48,4873.8"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e There are a lot of others, you know, stories take a long time, don't they? We can always the stories, but I don't think a story has to actually make a key point in your narrative in order to be worthwhile. And I didn't mention, if I went over the transcript, I'd throw a few more names in, as I would think of them. Early on, I worked with Ken Ehrman, one of the great people and a dear friend of Larry's, for sure. We worked on rubella. We had this fellow, Pekka Halinan from Finland, come and spend a year, and he and Ken did the hard part of rubella, and I did the. You know, we published the first picture of rubella virus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4873.8,4928.22"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Remember Pacha, Helena?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4928.22,4930.1"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e He's a great man. He was so good to me. There's a story that. It's in my book, but not in yours. But when he died, I wrote a letter that his deputy, Kurt D. Arstela, spent a year in my lab at CDC in 1976, which was flu fiasco, ebola legionnaires, the greatest year in CDC history. And he was there and we did nothing on what he said he was to do when he got there, but he did everything else. So when Pekka died, I wrote him a letter about me, Pekka and myself. And then I converted it into just text and put it in my book. But that was the first. You know, virology was still just emerging as a separate science. Some people thought viruses were little bacteria. Politically, virologists should shut up and they could have the last afternoon at the microbiology meeting. And so this happened internationally. And the first four big names founded the first International Congress of virology in Helsinki in 1968. And Peka had spent, I guess, 1967 at CDC. So. And this is Irene's first international trip to Helsinki. And we had a great time. But I was on the program like six times. I gave a talk in the opening session and I was just, you know, nobody. All because of Pekka. You know, I chaired a session on rabies, and I had the first paper in the rubella session because by that time, this is like a year after we published, there were like eight papers in a row saying, we are the first ones to see rubella virus. That's okay, because it's almost the same time and the social setting. Pekka and his wife just was so nice to us. It's all good luck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=4930.1,5092.05"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Wonderful people in public health.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5092.05,5094.77"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e So there's an award. There's three great awards. They all started in viral diseases, and two of them were really Joe McDade's doing. One's the Shepherd Award, which is, for all of CDC, the best science of the year. Charles Shepard McDade can handle that. You know, the greatest sign the CDC ever had, one is the Nakano award. And on that disc is my speech. At the first Nakano award, I went back to CDC, and across the front row was the Nakano family. Jim had just died. Margaret is still alive in Atlanta. She's one of the greatest people ever. And then the third is the Paladin award. I think Brian Mahi invented that. So at CDC, people who win those awards, that's really good stuff. I don't usually think much of local awards because even a place like UTMB, you know, they're given some award that I never heard of. You know, it's good to do, but it's not. It's not like getting elected to the IOM. There's only two members of the IOM here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5094.77,5189.094"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5189.094,5189.798"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Me and the the ethicist. Kind of a weird guy. So none of these virologists are members of the Iowa. They don't, there's no, you know, I know I've been involved for a long time now, so I, I know the politics and they are not going to be, you know, meanwhile, at University of Texas South Western Medical center in Dallas, they have five Nobel laureates and I think 40 members of the Institute of medicine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5189.798,5228.538"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e 40, something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5228.538,5230.554"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe that's a little high. I know. It's 30.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5230.554,5234.21"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5234.21,5236.69"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's a top ten place. Five Nobel laureates, five amazing, including this year's. You know, the guy did his work at the Scripps clinic in La Jolla and, you know, sort of in the weeks before the award was made public, he was hired to Texas. Big bucks. But he's a very good scientist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5236.69,5266.38"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I want to thank you for your time and especially for the pictures you put together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5266.38,5271.7"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, do we?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5271.7,5276.19"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eB:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd love to look at, should we.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5276.19,5277.374"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eA:\u003c/strong\u003e Look at, just put them up to see if the legends make any sense. And if they don't, I can use.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456#t=5277.374,5287.874"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2843/collection_resources/132677/file/247456/transcript/68970/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/970/original/transcript_1765825655.vtt20251215-2593616-bfzuom.vtt20251215-2593616-bfzuom?1765825655","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/068/970/original/transcript_1765825655.vtt20251215-2593616-bfzuom.vtt20251215-2593616-bfzuom?1765825655"}]}]}]}