{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/x639z9297q/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Nathanson, Neal"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/289/original/CDCM_Mark_2.1.png?1728486742","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["12446"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["David J. Sencer CDC Museum"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the David J. Sencer CDC Museum.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eInterviews may only be reproduced with permission from David J. 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My name is Karen Torghele, and I'll be talking with Dr. Nathanson for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=7.0,13.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Global Health Chronicles Polio Oral History project. The David J. Sencer CDC","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=13.0,18.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] Museum is partnering with the Emory","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=18.0,23.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Vaccine Center to gather these oral histories to document the history of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=23.0,28.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, including the era that covered","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=28.0,32.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio, from that time in the early days in the '50s to present. So what I want","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=32.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to say in way of introduction to Dr. Nathanson is that I've been interviewing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=39.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some other polio people, and on many questions what they said to me is, \"Oh, ask","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=45.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Neal Nathanson that, because he'll know.\" So that's what we're here to do today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=51.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To begin, I want to say welcome to Dr. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=57.0,61.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nNathanson, and thank you for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=61.0,64.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"participating in this project. Your name comes up over and over again in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=64.0,71.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"history of polio, and with all of the things that you did to contribute to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=71.0,79.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"research and development of the polio program. What I would like to start with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=79.0,86.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is for you to tell me a little bit about your background, and how you came to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=86.0,95.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"interested in medicine and in CDC and public health specifically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=95.0,100.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Right, so after I graduated from medical school, I was at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=100.0,107.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"University of Chicago doing a residency. This was in the early spring of 1955,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=107.0,114.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and my local draft board in Cambridge, Massachusetts, sent me a notice that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=114.0,121.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"under the then-existing ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=121.0,123.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndoctor draft, within a month or so I was going to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=123.0,128.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"drafted into the military to do my doctor draft obligation. Furthermore, they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=128.0,133.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"threatened that they might induct me as a buck private, in spite of the fact","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=133.0,140.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it was supposed to be a doctor draft. At that point I was in a panic,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=140.0,148.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because I didn't know what to do, and I had no time and I was very busy as a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=148.0,157.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resident and I had no contacts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=157.0,160.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I went to one person I knew who was the chief resident in medicine, a fellow","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=160.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"named [Dr. J. Thomas] Tom Grayston, who subsequently became the dean of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=168.0,174.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"School of Public Health at the University of Washington, and I asked him, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=174.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"explained the situation and asked him for advice. It ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=180.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nhappened, by just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=184.0,186.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"happenstance, that he had just completed a two-year tour of duty in Atlanta as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=186.0,194.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an Epidemic Intelligence Service officer, so he knew Dr. Alexander [D.] Langmuir","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=194.0,200.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at CDC [Center for Disease Control], who was the head of the epidemiology","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=200.0,207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program at CDC and who had invented the Epidemic Intelligence Service. And he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=207.0,214.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"called Dr. Langmuir and explained that I was desperately looking for a position,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=214.0,221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it so happened, for reasons I never did understand, that there was one open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=221.0,229.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"slot in the program that had never been filled in the previous recruiting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=229.0,236.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"season. And Tom Grayston persuaded Alex Langmuir to offer me this slot, sight unseen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=236.0,244.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=244.0,245.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nMarch of 1955, early spring, I ended up in Atlanta and was assigned a desk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=245.0,255.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the epidemiology, it was the floor that the epidemiology department had. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=255.0,264.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't have any assignment. Langmuir was waiting for someplace to assign me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=264.0,273.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then on, I think it was April 11, 1955, the result of the Francis Field","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=273.0,284.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Trial, which is a trial of Salk vaccine, was announced, and the vaccine was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=284.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shown to be both safe and quite effective. At that point there was a rapid","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=293.0,303.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"effort to deploy some ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=303.0,306.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=306.0,307.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was interesting, Basil O'Connor, who was the director of the NFIP [National","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=307.0,314.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Foundation for Infantile Paralysis], the National Foundation for Infantile","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=314.0,319.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Paralysis, who had subsidized this trial, different than nowadays, when the NIH","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=319.0,325.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[National Institutes of Health] or a drug company subsidizes. So the NFIP had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=325.0,332.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"subsidized the Francis Field trial. But Basil O'Connor, in his wisdom, had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=332.0,338.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"looked ahead and said, if the trial is successful there will be a demand for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=338.0,346.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine. So he had personally commissioned and paid five or six manufacturers to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=346.0,353.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacture some prototype lots of Salk vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=353.0,357.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in those days things were done rather informally, and so in Ann Arbor,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=357.0,364.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Michigan, in the aftermath, the day or two ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=364.0,368.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfollowing the successful trial, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=368.0,371.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"informal, like, I wasn't there, I don't know the details. The decision was made,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=371.0,378.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on the part of the public health service, I guess, to license Salk vaccine based","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=378.0,386.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on the trial, and also to license these lots of vaccine which had been produced","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=386.0,394.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on spec, commissioned by the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=394.0,400.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"immediately they started distributing and injecting children. As I remember, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=400.0,406.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"priority was given to the five- to nine-year-olds, because it was a limited","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=406.0,413.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"amount of vaccine, and the vaccine was supposed to do the most good in these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=413.0,421.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"kids who have the highest-rate risk for polio. I can go on from there, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=421.0,428.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbut maybe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=428.0,429.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I should stop for a minute and see if you had questions at this point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=429.0,435.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: As I understand it, Tom Grayston was in the first EIS [Epidemic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=435.0,440.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intelligence Service] class in 1951. Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=440.0,443.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Apparently, in my memory, but I may have this wrong, was that he had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=443.0,449.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just returned, and that wouldn't quite make sense, but maybe he had returned a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=449.0,454.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"few years earlier. I know he was the chief resident, and some of the facts I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=454.0,460.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"never did know. We're talking about a long time ago, so I may have forgotten","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=460.0,466.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some of the detail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=466.0,468.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It sounds like it was sort of serendipitous that you knew him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=468.0,473.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, he was the chief resident. I never heard of the Epidemic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=473.0,478.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intelligence Service or Alex Langmuir or CDC. I just went to him for advice, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=478.0,484.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, what should I do? One thing I didn't particularly want to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=484.0,489.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndo was spend two","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=489.0,491.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years, as my brother did, in Iceland as a general practitioner for the Air Force","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=491.0,498.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"base that the English had in Iceland. So that was the kind of thing I wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=498.0,505.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"particularly interested in doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=505.0,507.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So you hadn't heard of the Communicable Disease Center before, or EIS?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=507.0,513.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, no. I knew nothing. All I knew was, I wanted to do something I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=513.0,520.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thought would be a little more interesting than being a general practitioner at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=520.0,526.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a military base somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=526.0,528.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: When you arrived at CDC, you didn't have an assignment, but did you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=528.0,534.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have training?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=534.0,535.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No. So I had been through medical school, and I was a reasonably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=535.0,541.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"competent clinical person in general medicine at that point, but I had no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=541.0,547.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"background in epidemiology, virology, vaccines, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=547.0,550.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nknew nothing about any of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=550.0,553.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: You, of course, had heard about the polio vaccine, the Salk vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=553.0,559.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes, I mean, but vaguely. I wasn't into public health or anything","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=559.0,565.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like that, so I knew about it vaguely, but remember, I was totally preoccupied","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=565.0,572.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with totally other things. Going through medical school, they didn't talk about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=572.0,578.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, particularly. They weren't into preventive medicine, and as a resident I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=578.0,584.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was taking care of acutely sick patients in the hospital: heart attacks,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=584.0,590.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"diabetes, problems like that. And I wasn't into pediatrics, which is where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=590.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines were focused, and polio, remember, was mainly a pediatric problem. So,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=596.0,602.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"no, I was a totally blank slate on all the relevant information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=602.0,608.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: How did it happen that you began to specialize in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=608.0,613.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n polio?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=613.0,614.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, what happened, very simply, was, toward the end of April, 1955,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=614.0,621.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there came reports that some of the kids, I think the first one was a baby or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=621.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"toddler from Chicago, was reported to have developed acute paralytic polio at a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=630.0,637.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"time when natural polio was at its very low incidence. I should mention in this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=637.0,645.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"connection that before the vaccines, polio in the United States was extremely","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=645.0,652.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"seasonal, and the high point was in late August, early September. The low point","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=652.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was in March, something like February, March, April, and the low point, there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=660.0,667.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was almost no polio occurring in the United States, paralytic polio or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=667.0,674.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninfections. A few cases in children or adults at that time of year were very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=674.0,682.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"notable, whereas in the middle of the summer nobody would've paid much","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=682.0,688.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"attention. And then it turned out that these were individuals who had just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=688.0,695.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"received, a few weeks before, the newly distributed Salk vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=695.0,700.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So at that point Alex Langmuir decided to create a unit, and I'll explain what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=700.0,708.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this unit was, called the Polio Surveillance Unit, and that was simply a single","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=708.0,715.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"office in which sat the secretary, a woman named Maryann Lyle, myself, and I'll","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=715.0,722.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"get back to that in a moment, and a statistician, who eventually became a fellow","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=722.0,730.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"named [Dr. William Jackson] Jack Hall, who was also an EIS officer, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=730.0,736.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbecause EIS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=736.0,737.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had taken a few people who were statisticians as well as mainly medically","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=737.0,743.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trained people. But I was assigned to head this, well, first of all, Alex called","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=743.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this the Polio Surveillance Unit. He created that name and as far as being the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=750.0,757.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"head of it, he just designated me as the head of this newly created unit, just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=757.0,765.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these three people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=765.0,766.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were just down the hall from him, so he basically instructed us on a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=766.0,774.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"daily basis what we should be doing, and the job superficially was very simple.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=774.0,781.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We should collect all the cases of polio that were occurring in the United","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=781.0,788.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"States, and the first thing we had to do was create a standard form that had ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=788.0,796.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninformation about these cases, and particularly with respect to whether or not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=796.0,802.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they had gotten polio vaccine, and then put this information together in an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=802.0,808.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"orderly fashion and distribute it back to the people it was coming from. And the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=808.0,815.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people that it was coming from were, in every state there was a state health","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=815.0,822.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"officer and a state department of public health, and there was also a state","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=822.0,829.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiologist. That was an existing structure, and it was the responsibility of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=829.0,835.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the state epidemiologist to investigate, collect information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=835.0,838.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Remember, there were only very few cases of polio, or any cases of polio,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=838.0,845.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"occurring in their state on a daily basis, and to complete these forms which we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=845.0,852.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"distributed, of course, everything in those days, there was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=852.0,856.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nno Internet, there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=856.0,858.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was no email, the telephone, was very cumbersome. And there was the regular mail","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=858.0,865.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"system, and all the information that we put together was typed out by Maryann","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=865.0,872.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lyle every day on a mimeograph machine, and then that mimeograph was copied a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=872.0,879.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hundred times over, and there was a mailing list, and every day a report was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=879.0,887.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sent to all the five hundred people, including the state epidemiologist. Of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=887.0,893.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"course, the state epidemiologist could reach out, in each county, or many","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=893.0,899.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"counties, under the state there were public health officers, and then Alex","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=899.0,905.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Langmuir assigned some of the EIS officers on an emergency basis to help","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=905.0,912.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investigate these cases and complete this form.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=912.0,916.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=916.0,917.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nour job sitting in Atlanta was to take all this information in and actually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=917.0,923.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"create what we called a line listing. For each case there was a listing, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=923.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"initials of the individual, their age, if they got the vaccine, when they got","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=930.0,936.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it, and when they developed polio, et cetera, et cetera, some very basic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=936.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"information. And we put this line listing together and every day it went out on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=942.0,949.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"five hundred copies that were mimeographed by Maryann Lyle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=949.0,953.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Quite a different communication system, wasn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=953.0,957.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Very primitive. Remember, I knew nothing about how to do any of this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=957.0,963.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and Alex had to sort of show me how to put together, once a week we would do a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=963.0,971.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"summary, how to put together even simple tables that were child's play, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=971.0,977.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"nobody ever instructed ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=977.0,978.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nme how to put together even a simple table that showed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=978.0,983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for each state how many cases, et cetera, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=983.0,988.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So you had no training in epidemiology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=988.0,992.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, no. In fact, I was the only EIS officer in history who had never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=992.0,999.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"taken the EIS course, because the way the program worked. It was a two-year","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=999.0,1005.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program and the first month of the program was an intensive course in the basic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1005.0,1012.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"methods of epidemiology. But I never took that course, because I arrived in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1012.0,1018.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"middle of the year and all the other EIS officers had taken the course. So I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1018.0,1025.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"didn't even have that background of basic instruction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1025.0,1029.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What was Alex Langmuir like to work with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1029.0,1033.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, at this point I was totally untutored and he ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1033.0,1038.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwas an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1038.0,1039.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"accomplished field epidemiologist and so he was very, very helpful. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1039.0,1044.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember, at this point in terms of public health emergencies and epidemics,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1044.0,1050.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this was the number one issue in the whole of the United States. What I'm trying","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1050.0,1058.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to say in another way is this outbreak of cases was on the front page of the New","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1058.0,1067.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"York Times every day for two months. That is almost unheard of, even Zika","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1067.0,1074.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doesn't make the front page of the New York Times every day for two months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1074.0,1081.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this was the number one hot issue, so I would say that everything we did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1081.0,1089.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember Alex was only a hundred feet down the hall. He was watching over us","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1089.0,1096.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very, very closely, so in a sense ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1096.0,1099.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\neverything I did was under his immediate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1099.0,1102.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"direction. Obviously, certain routine things, we learned pretty quickly what was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1102.0,1107.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"expected of us, and so he didn't have to repeat the instructions about those","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1107.0,1114.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"things. We were working fourteen-hour days also, because each day we had to get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1114.0,1121.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out a report before the end of the day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1121.0,1125.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember I went home and fell into bed and slept like a log and got up the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1125.0,1133.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"next morning and went to work. That was all there was in my day, so it was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1133.0,1141.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very intensive kind of thing, and what we were doing in retrospect was quite","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1141.0,1148.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"simple. And then what immediately came out of all this data collection was, as I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1148.0,1155.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mentioned, it was the manufacturer situation. One thing ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1155.0,1159.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthat became very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1159.0,1161.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apparent very early was, there was an unusual concentration of these cases","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1161.0,1168.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"occurring in children who had gotten polio vaccine, and that concentration was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1168.0,1175.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in two states: Idaho and California. Now, it turned out that when the vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1175.0,1183.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that the NFIP had ordered was distributed, it didn't just go randomly from the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1183.0,1191.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"six manufacturers all over the country. It turned out that the vaccine that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1191.0,1199.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"made by one manufacturer went mainly to California and Idaho, and that was the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1199.0,1207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cutter Laboratories in Berkeley, California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1207.0,1210.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Immediately, it became clear that many of these cases, the great, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1210.0,1217.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ngreat bulk of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1217.0,1219.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them, were in kids who got the vaccine manufactured by one of the five or six","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1219.0,1228.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers, and that was the Cutter Laboratories. So even early on, before we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1228.0,1235.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did any formal analysis, at a glance, almost, it was apparent that there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1235.0,1243.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something peculiar. There was a clear association between the vaccine made by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1243.0,1249.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one manufacturer and the great bulk of these cases, and that, of course, led to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1249.0,1257.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what subsequently was called the Cutter incident, and again, Alex Langmuir was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1257.0,1263.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the person who gave it that particular name. So maybe I'll stop there for a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1263.0,1271.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"moment and get your next question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1271.0,1274.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: How many other pharmaceutical companies ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1274.0,1277.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwere there involved in vaccines?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1277.0,1279.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I'd have to check the originals. My memory is there were a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1279.0,1285.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"total of five or six, I don't remember, but there were Park Davis and Lily and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1285.0,1292.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've forgotten the names. I should mention also, by the way, that the other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1292.0,1298.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers were better-known, more established companies than the Cutter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1298.0,1302.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Laboratories. I don't think they had made any vaccines. This was the first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1302.0,1308.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine they made, whereas the other manufacturers had made other kinds of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1308.0,1313.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines for other infectious diseases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1313.0,1315.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Did they all have the same protocol to follow?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1315.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. The protocol to produce the vaccine was one made by [Dr.] Jonas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1320.0,1326.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk, and when I say that the vaccine was licensed, it was licensed, part of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1326.0,1333.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"licensing, although I can't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1333.0,1335.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndescribe the detail because I wasn't involved in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1335.0,1340.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, included a protocol about how to make the vaccine following Salk's recipe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1340.0,1348.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And basically, just a moment to describe it in general, basically, there were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1348.0,1356.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"three types of polio virus; one, two and three, they were called. Each one was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1356.0,1365.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"grown in a standard tissue culture in large carboys, and the cultures were then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1365.0,1373.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"infected with the polio virus, and after a certain point of time those cells","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1373.0,1381.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were killed and the virus was released. And that fluid, which consisted of dead","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1381.0,1389.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cells and a lot of virus, was then subjected to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1389.0,1395.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nformaldehyde treatment at 37","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1395.0,1397.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"degrees for a couple of weeks, they were cooked, and that was to render the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1397.0,1405.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"live, infectious virus theoretically inactive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1405.0,1408.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What Salk had shown was that this inactivated virus was, first of all,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1408.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"non-infectious, and, secondly, was immunogenic. In other words, it could induce","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1415.0,1421.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an immune response in humans that would protect them against polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1421.0,1427.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Was there, then, a way to test the vaccine before they went out,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1427.0,1434.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"before the vials went out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1434.0,1437.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. Yes. Every lot of vaccine, and again, this was not what I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1437.0,1445.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"involved with, others were, and would be more knowledgeable, in my best memory,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1445.0,1452.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"every lot of vaccine, part of the protocol was testing each lot for both ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1452.0,1459.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n safety","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1459.0,1460.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and effectiveness, or at least certainly for safety. The way that was done was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1460.0,1468.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to take samples of the vaccine and inject it, as I remember, inject it into both","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1468.0,1478.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"monkeys and maybe tissue cultures to see, to prove that there was no live virus,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1478.0,1487.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"residual live virus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1487.0,1489.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In fact, in retrospect, it turned out that Cutter, the Cutter Laboratories, had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1489.0,1497.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a lot of trouble inactivating the vaccine during the inactivation process. That","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1497.0,1504.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is, apparently many of the batches they made failed to pass their own internal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1504.0,1512.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"safety tests. And however, because this was not part of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1512.0,1519.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nprotocol, they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1519.0,1520.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apparently just poured those down the drain and never reported their problems","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1520.0,1527.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to, I've forgotten what it was called, it was the predecessor of the FDA [Food","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1527.0,1536.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and Drug Administration], the Laboratory of Biologics, as I remember, it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1536.0,1543.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"called, at any rate, so that in fact the central certifying U.S. government","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1543.0,1551.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"entity in Washington was unaware of the problems they had been having.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1551.0,1558.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The lots of Cutter vaccine which were released had passed their safety tests, at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1558.0,1566.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"least appeared to have passed their safety tests, but it was clear that, in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1566.0,1574.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retrospect, they were questionable, because of the failure to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1574.0,1579.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nconsistently pass","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1579.0,1580.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"safety tests. So yes, there was a clear indication that they were having","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1580.0,1587.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivation problems. That was never reported to the Laboratory of Biologics at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1587.0,1593.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NIH, as I understand it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1593.0,1596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Were the people at Cutter concerned? Did they consult anyone, knowing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1596.0,1602.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that they had problems?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1602.0,1604.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I can't tell you that, but my impression is no, that in fact","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1604.0,1612.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they concealed their problems. They were in denial, which of course in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1612.0,1618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retrospect was a terrible mistake. I think what they probably knew was, if they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1618.0,1625.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had reported these problems, they would have been told to cease and desist","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1625.0,1632.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"making vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1632.0,1633.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: That would have set them back?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1633.0,1637.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, they would have abandoned that program. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1637.0,1641.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAgain, they were not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1641.0,1643.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"officially breaking any of the rules. In retrospect, the rules were changed so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1643.0,1649.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that no vaccine could be released if it wasn't part of at least a run of five","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1649.0,1657.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"consecutive batches that passed safety tests. But that was not in the original protocol.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1657.0,1664.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It sounds like they were responsible for doing their own safety","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1664.0,1670.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"testing and then making the decision about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1670.0,1674.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. It was not written into the protocol. There was not good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1674.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oversight, and in retrospect that was changed. The protocols were changed after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1680.0,1686.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Cutter incident to require much better federal oversight of manufacturing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1686.0,1691.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and safety testing. Also, since you are on the subject, I should mention: it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1691.0,1698.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"became fairly clear what ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1698.0,1700.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthe problem was with the Cutter vaccine, and that is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1700.0,1705.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because the batches of vaccine were prepared from these cell cultures with all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1705.0,1712.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these dead cells floating around. There was a filtration step where the fluid","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1712.0,1719.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was put through a filter that would hold back the residual cells and parts of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1719.0,1727.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cells, but would let the virus, which is much smaller, go through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1727.0,1733.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"However, that filtration step did not completely remove all the particulate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1733.0,1739.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"matter, and in fact, apparently, if you looked at these carboys which are being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1739.0,1746.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivated, at the bottom you could see a dusting of particulate matter. It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1746.0,1753.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"turned out that all you had to do was add a couple of additional filtration","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1753.0,1761.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"steps and you ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1761.0,1763.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ncould get rid of that particulate matter. So apparently what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1763.0,1769.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"happened was that aggregates of the virus were being created during the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1769.0,1776.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivation. Those aggregates would protect some particles from ever being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1776.0,1782.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivated, and if you filtered those aggregates out, what came through would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1782.0,1789.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be totally safe. So that was also part of the change in protocol, adding some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1789.0,1798.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"filtration steps.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1798.0,1799.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: That gets us up to the point where the immunization program had begun","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1799.0,1807.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all over the country with five different pharmaceutical companies, including","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1807.0,1813.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cutter, and you said how long afterwards were the cases being noticed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1813.0,1820.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: What happened was that, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1820.0,1823.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nand I've forgotten exactly the timing here,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1823.0,1827.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's all in the records, within a couple of weeks a decision was made, not at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1827.0,1835.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CDC, but in consultation with Alex, was made by the Laboratory of Biologics, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1835.0,1842.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public Health Service, to terminate the vaccine program, or suspend it, is a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1842.0,1849.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"better word. So no further vaccine was being used at that point. The idea was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1849.0,1857.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that they wanted to wait until there was a clear idea of what was going wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1857.0,1865.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Within, I think it was by the first of June approximately, 1955, because the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1865.0,1872.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whole focus was on Cutter, clearly no Cutter vaccine was going to be further","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1872.0,1879.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"released. But the other ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1879.0,1881.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfour or five manufacturers, their vaccine, with one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1881.0,1885.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"possible exception that we may come to, was apparently okay in terms of being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1885.0,1892.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"safe in use. Each of the manufacturers was visited by an expert group. I wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1892.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"part of that. These were mainly virologists and production people, and they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1900.0,1906.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reviewed the production protocols at each manufacturer, and over the next month","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1906.0,1912.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or so they relicensed the vaccine being produced by those manufacturers. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1912.0,1918.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program was then recommenced, but not much vaccine, as I remember, was being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1918.0,1925.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"given until maybe the following fall or maybe even the spring of 1956, because","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1925.0,1932.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of all the national concern.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1932.0,1935.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You have to remember also another comment: I mentioned that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1935.0,1940.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthis was on the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1940.0,1942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"front page of the New York Times every day for two months. What was at stake was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1942.0,1950.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not only the credibility of Salk vaccine, but all vaccines. In other words,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1950.0,1956.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there was an outcry that we should abandon all vaccine for every disease in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1956.0,1963.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whole country because none of these vaccines were safe. There was a lot more at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1963.0,1970.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stake than just polio vaccine, which was a big enough deal in itself. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1970.0,1977.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"relicensing was done partly to reassure the public that, in fact, polio vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1977.0,1983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could be safely produced, or polio vaccine could be produced that was safe to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1983.0,1990.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"use and would be effective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1990.0,1992.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Meanwhile, we were collecting these cases, but most of the cases, in other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1992.0,1998.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"words, had been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1998.0,1999.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nimmunized and had received Cutter vaccine or other vaccines from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=1999.0,2004.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the period, well, maybe mid-April to mid-May, when the program was terminated or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2004.0,2011.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"suspended. It was about a one-month period of time when vaccine was being used,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2011.0,2019.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"including the Cutter vaccine. After that, there was a period when no vaccine was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2019.0,2027.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"used, and then the program was started up, but with manufactured vaccines that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2027.0,2034.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were safe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2034.0,2035.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We continued to collect information in detail and analyze it, but it was all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2035.0,2043.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"based on immunizations given in that one-month period: approximately from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2043.0,2048.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mid-April to mid-May in 1955.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2048.0,2051.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: How was it that CDC was the agency that was chosen to do that surveillance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2051.0,2060.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2060.0,2061.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nCDC, although it's not really called that, is the Federal Public","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2061.0,2067.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Health Service. They are, and I can't really give you a clear explanation, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2067.0,2075.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically, there's also the U.S. Public Health Service, but they really were the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2075.0,2082.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"National Public Health Service and still are. I mean, it's called the Centers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2082.0,2089.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for Disease Control and Prevention now, but they are equivalent. There is no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2089.0,2096.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other U.S. federal public health service, and the so-called \"public health","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2096.0,2102.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"service\" was really just a group of professional public health service officers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2102.0,2108.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who were incorporated into the CDC or had other assignments, but they were not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2108.0,2116.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an administrative entity like a national department. That was always ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2116.0,2121.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nCDC that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2121.0,2122.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eventually became part of HEW [Department of Health, Education, and Welfare] and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2122.0,2128.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2128.0,2129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Was the National Institutes of Health [NIH] involved?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2129.0,2133.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, not really. The Laboratory of Biologics, and still is the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2133.0,2139.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Center for Biologic Control, happens to occupy a building on the NIH campus, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2139.0,2146.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"no, that's a separate entity. The NIH was a research organization, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2146.0,2152.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eventually this became incorporated into the Food and Drug Administration, which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2152.0,2157.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is a separate entity responsible for vaccines, food, drugs and so forth. It's a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2157.0,2164.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"totally separate operation really dealing with licensing and quality control,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2164.0,2169.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they do research, but only research in support of that mission.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2169.0,2175.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So CDC became known more after the Cutter incident?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2175.0,2180.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2180.0,2180.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWell, again, I'm not the one to really comment about that. I mean,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2180.0,2186.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these things evolved in sort of a happenstance way. Remember, the NIH was really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2186.0,2193.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"created, more or less, after the Second World War, although there had been a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2193.0,2200.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"laboratory of hygiene for decades or maybe a hundred years before. We didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2200.0,2206.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really have a system of federally funded biomedical research or grant-giving or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2206.0,2212.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"anything. People have sort of forgotten, but none of this really existed in a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2212.0,2219.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"meaningful way until after the Second World War. We really didn't have a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2219.0,2225.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"full-blown federal public health service in the same way until, I think, after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2225.0,2231.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Second World War.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2231.0,2233.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, the CDC was in Atlanta because it was originally started as a malaria","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2233.0,2240.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"control program and then evolved ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2240.0,2242.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninto infectious diseases. Originally, the CDC","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2242.0,2245.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stood for Communicable Disease Control or Center, Communicable Disease Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2245.0,2249.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then it evolved into Centers for Disease Control and Eradication. So, all of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2249.0,2255.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this has gradually evolved, but you'd have to talk to other people who can tell","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2255.0,2262.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the history of all of that much better than I can.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2262.0,2267.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: During this time, what was the reaction at the Salk lab?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2267.0,2272.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Now this has been published, so I can say it. The truth is that Jonas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2272.0,2279.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk was partly culpable here. And of course he's dead, so he can't respond, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2279.0,2286.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm sure he would deny it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2286.0,2289.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But a guy named [Dr.] Julius Youngner, the story which has been now written up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2289.0,2296.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and published, so it's not the first time, a senior postdoctoral associate in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2296.0,2302.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Salk's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2302.0,2303.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nlaboratory was a guy named Julius Youngner. I think he may still be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2303.0,2309.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"alive. He was at the University of Pittsburgh along with Salk. And apparently,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2309.0,2315.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at least as Julius Youngner told me the story, he had a meeting and happened to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2315.0,2322.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be in San Francisco, and Salk asked him while he was there, this was not in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2322.0,2329.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"connection or direct connection with the Salk vaccine, to go across the bay to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2329.0,2335.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Berkeley and look at what was going on at the Cutter laboratories. This is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2335.0,2341.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"before the Francis Field Trial was announced, but meanwhile, of course, Salk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2341.0,2346.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"knew that Cutter, among these other manufacturers, making vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2346.0,2350.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Youngner did, I'm not sure if it was a formal, but an informal review","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2350.0,2357.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"look-see, and he was very disturbed by what he found. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2357.0,2362.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd he told me he went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2362.0,2365.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"back to Pittsburgh and told Salk, because of course Youngner knew all about the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2365.0,2373.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk protocols, that he felt that Cutter, the Cutter vaccine, should not be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2373.0,2380.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trusted, and should never be used. I may be misquoting him, but this is what he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2380.0,2389.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"told me some years ago face-to-face in a private verbal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2389.0,2394.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He told Salk that he should do something. Salk said, yes, I'll do something, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2394.0,2402.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he buried it because he was afraid that if he cast any question, the whole","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2402.0,2410.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine program would be called into question. Whatever, I don't know his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2410.0,2416.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"motivation, but apparently nothing ever transpired. And Youngner was very upset, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2416.0,2422.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nand he carried that upset and anger with Salk for the next forty years, that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2422.0,2429.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk had betrayed him and the program by not reporting that there was a problem","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2429.0,2436.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with Cutter vaccine and that it should not be used before it was ever distributed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2436.0,2443.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, Salk isn't here to defend himself. Julius Youngner has certainly told the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2443.0,2449.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"story to other people. Julius Youngner was a very respectable virologist. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2449.0,2454.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eventually became, as I remember, the chair of the biochemistry department at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2454.0,2459.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the University of Pittsburgh, I think in the medical school, so he's a very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2459.0,2465.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reputable guy who mainly did his career working on influenza virus. But at any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2465.0,2471.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rate, that's a bit of the story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2471.0,2474.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alex Langmuir taught me certain things. He said, not in this connection, but in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2474.0,2480.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"general, he said, \"Don't get ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2480.0,2482.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nup too close to your heroes because you'll find","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2482.0,2487.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they all have feet of clay.\" That's a direct quote from Alex, and that could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2487.0,2495.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/428","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apply to many situations. Apparently, that would also apply to Jonas Salk, at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2495.0,2502.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/429","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"least if this story is correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2502.0,2505.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What about Dr. Sabin, Albert Sabin?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2505.0,2509.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Remember, Sabin was not in the picture. The Sabin vaccine came along","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2509.0,2516.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"later. Sabin was supported by the NFIP to do research, but his vaccine, which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2516.0,2523.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was a live attenuated virus and also had its limitations in terms of safety, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2523.0,2531.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he wasn't involved in this, other than bad-mouthing Salk, because he called the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2531.0,2538.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk vaccine \"kitchen chemistry,\" sort of like a Donald Trump put-down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2538.0,2544.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What can I say? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2544.0,2546.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSabin and Salk were not natural enemies, but they were very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2546.0,2551.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fierce champions of their own product, so they wrangled. Of course, it turned","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2551.0,2557.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out that both were correct, and that each of the two vaccines had its strengths","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2557.0,2564.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and weaknesses. And the United States, as you know, went from Salk vaccine to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2564.0,2570.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sabin vaccine and now back to Salk vaccine. So, pointing out that both of these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2570.0,2577.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines had their role, and, as in many scientific controversies, it turns out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2577.0,2583.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that both sides have some right and maybe some wrong as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2583.0,2588.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: The clinical trials were finished after the Rivers,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2588.0,2592.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Right. That was, by the way, a special trial. I don't know if it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2592.0,2599.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the only, but one of the very largest trials that was ever conducted. It was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2599.0,2606.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"written up in a vast ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2606.0,2608.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbook of data with hundreds of thousands of participants,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2608.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something that would be impossible to replicate nowadays, probably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2612.0,2616.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: No informed consent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2616.0,2618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well I don't really know about that. I wasn't involved in the Francis","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2618.0,2625.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Field Trial, and there's a short version and a large book, a long version. I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2625.0,2632.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not sure about consent, frankly. There may have been. I really don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2632.0,2638.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Now, when you were at CDC, who else was involved from your [EIS]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2638.0,2645.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"class? Were there others?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2645.0,2647.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, basically, no. I mean, all the time I was there, as I remember,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2647.0,2654.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"originally the statistician in the EIS Unit, in the polio surveillance unit,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2654.0,2660.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"excuse me, was a guy named [Dr.] Earl Diamond. But he was involved in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2660.0,2667.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Francis Field ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2667.0,2668.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nTrial, and so he went back to the University of Michigan, to Ann","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2668.0,2673.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Arbor, to finish writing up the Francis Field Trial, because [Dr. Thomas] Tony","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2673.0,2678.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Francis wanted him there to help. It was a whole big team involved. I mean, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2678.0,2685.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"report of this trial was like three hundred pages of data. It was a vast effort.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2685.0,2692.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alex, as I remember, was annoyed at Earl Diamond, but at any rate, shortly after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2692.0,2698.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the unit was created, I don't remember exactly when, Diamond left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2698.0,2703.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Jack Hall became a good friend of mine, and is still alive, I believe, as a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2703.0,2710.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retired professor of biostatistics at the University of Rochester, Jack Hall was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2710.0,2715.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a PhD statistician, but he was an EIS officer who was brought into the unit. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2715.0,2722.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it was Maryann Lyle, the secretary, Jack Hall, and myself, and we basically were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2722.0,2728.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2728.0,2728.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were a vast number of people involved in data collection, and if you look","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2728.0,2735.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at the 1963 publication, there are three contiguous articles in the American","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2735.0,2740.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Journal of Hygiene 1963 where all the people who are involved are credited. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2740.0,2746.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"terms of data collection, we were just putting it together, but all the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2746.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shoe-leather stuff was done by dozens and dozens of dozens of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2752.0,2757.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: I have a list of the people who were involved in the Cutter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2757.0,2763.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investigation, but I think they're mostly state people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2763.0,2767.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, every state, there were people involved. And so, as I say, it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2767.0,2773.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the paper. So as far as I know, that's a complete list. And yours may be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2773.0,2781.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/480","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"also. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2781.0,2783.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/481","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: I got it from your paper.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2783.0,2786.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Oh, well, it's the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2786.0,2788.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nsame thing. Right. On the front line there were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2788.0,2792.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the state epidemiologists. Then below there were the county people and then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2792.0,2798.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there were some EIS officers. So basically the idea was that these cases would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2798.0,2804.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be often hospitalized or almost invariably, at any rate, they would go to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2804.0,2810.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hospital, look at the record and fill out the standard form based on what was in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2810.0,2817.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the hospital record. We would often get forms that were incomplete. There were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2817.0,2823.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blanks that hadn't been filled in, and we would then keep pestering people to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2823.0,2829.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fill in the rest of the blanks. As I say, it could be anybody. The information","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2829.0,2836.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wasn't that complicated, but our job was to nag people to fill in all of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2836.0,2843.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blanks: the names, the ages, the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2843.0,2846.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwhatever. However they wanted to collect information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2846.0,2849.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was from all over the country, so there were many, many people involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2849.0,2856.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They were really the unacknowledged heroes in the trenches, because all we were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2856.0,2862.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing was just putting together, collating all this information, and then doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2862.0,2867.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some really quite simple-minded analysis of the data.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2867.0,2871.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What kind of tools did you have to analyze the data?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2871.0,2876.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"These are all very simple. You didn't need anything but a pencil and paper, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2876.0,2883.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you could use an adding machine if you wanted, but you know there were no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2883.0,2890.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"calculators at that time. There were these Monroe mechanical calculators, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2890.0,2895.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you could just use longhand. These analyses were very, very simple. There were a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2895.0,2901.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"few times when Jack Hall would maybe do some tests of significance and so forth, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2901.0,2908.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbut basically it was all very simple-minded stuff. I don't mean to say it wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2908.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"relevant or pertinent or didn't deliver the goods, but it wasn't complicated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2919.0,2928.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: You were at CDC for two years?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2928.0,2934.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. The tour of duty was two years, and because I started more than","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2934.0,2945.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"partway through the year, I stayed for two-plus years. I was there from March of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2945.0,2956.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1955 to July of 1957. So I guess it was a bit more than two ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2956.0,2967.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nyears, because I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2967.0,2969.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the class of '55. In those days, or, I guess, still, EIS classes are based on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2969.0,2978.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the year you started, not the year you graduated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2978.0,2983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: From there you went,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2983.0,2986.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/514","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: I went to Johns Hopkins then. So what happened at that point, Alex","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2986.0,2994.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/515","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Langmuir had been at Hopkins as an associate professor in the epi [epidemiology]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=2994.0,3001.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"department, and he was friendly with some of the Hopkins people. And one of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3001.0,3010.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people he was friendly with was a guy named [Dr.] David Bodian, who is really a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3010.0,3019.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basic science researcher. Dave Bodian was still at Hopkins, and his contribution","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3019.0,3026.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3026.0,3027.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndoing experiments using monkeys, but with live polio virus, to understand","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3027.0,3032.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"how the virus caused polio, otherwise called the pathogenesis of polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3032.0,3037.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Remember, this was such a hot topic, Alex Langmuir had Dave Bodian come down to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3037.0,3044.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta when all of this was going on, I think twice, I don't remember exactly,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3044.0,3051.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but give a couple of lectures about his background information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3051.0,3056.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is like Ebola was a little while ago and Zika is now, but even much hotter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3056.0,3064.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/526","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to talk about what he and other people knew about the pathogenesis of polio. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3064.0,3071.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/527","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"heard these talks and I was sort of entranced by this kind of research. So when","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3071.0,3079.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/528","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"my time to complete EIS came to an end, I wrote David ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3079.0,3085.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/529","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nBodian, with Alex's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3085.0,3087.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/530","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"knowledge and maybe support, and said I was really fascinated by what he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3087.0,3094.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/531","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing, and could I come and do a postdoc with him? Remember, I didn't have a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3094.0,3102.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/532","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"research background. I had an MD, but that wasn't research. In those days,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3102.0,3109.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/533","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rather than get combined degrees, which weren't available, MD/PhD, people who","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3109.0,3115.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/534","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"are interested in research would go through medical school and then do a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3115.0,3122.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/535","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"postdoc, where they would do research training usually for two to four years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3122.0,3129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/536","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and then they would move on to become independent researchers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3129.0,3134.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/537","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At any rate, Bodian wrote back and said he was funded by the NFIP. And he wrote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3134.0,3143.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/538","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and said he had asked them if ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3143.0,3147.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/539","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthey would add to his grant a slot for a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3147.0,3152.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/540","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"postdoctoral researcher for training, and they said yes. And so he said, I've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3152.0,3158.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/541","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"created a slot, and wrote me, you can come to Baltimore. So that's where I ended","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3158.0,3166.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/542","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"up, in the anatomy department, oddly enough, but that's another story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3166.0,3171.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/543","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: And you worked with Dr. Bodian?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3171.0,3174.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/544","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: With Dr. Bodian, yes. So I ended up as a postdoctoral fellow in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3174.0,3181.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/545","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bodian's lab. He had been in the epi department at Hopkins, although he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3181.0,3188.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/546","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing basic science stuff, but it was in support of polio vaccine. Just before I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3188.0,3195.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/547","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"came to Hopkins, Bodian moved from the school of public health across the street","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3195.0,3202.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/548","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to the medical school to be the head of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3202.0,3207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/549","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nanatomy department, and so I ended","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3207.0,3210.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/550","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"up in the anatomy department. Not that I had any interest in anatomy, but that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3210.0,3217.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/551","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"where he was, so that's where I was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3217.0,3221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/552","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What was he like to work with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3221.0,3225.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/553","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Oh, he was great. He was great. Dave Bodian was a true scientist. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3225.0,3232.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/554","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wasn't like Sabin and Salk, who were advocates. In fact, he refused to get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3232.0,3239.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/555","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"involved in all those controversies. He was much more dispassionate about, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3239.0,3245.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/556","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"does the science say, and so he recognized that there were advantages and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3245.0,3251.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/557","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"disadvantages of both vaccines and so forth. So his interest was in asking, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3251.0,3258.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/558","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"are the pertinent scientific questions? And what experiments can we do to try to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3258.0,3265.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/559","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"answer them? He was a great mentor. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3265.0,3269.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/560","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nstayed there from 1957 to 1964 and then I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3269.0,3274.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/561","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"moved to the epi department in the school of public health.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3274.0,3280.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/562","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: That would have been what year?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3280.0,3284.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/563","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: 1964 I moved over to the epidemiology department, and I was there and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3284.0,3291.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/564","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from 1964 to 1979.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3291.0,3293.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/565","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So in the 1960s is when the Sabin vaccine started to be used?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3293.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/566","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes, right. I was not involved in that, but yes. Well, Sabin vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3300.0,3307.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/567","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was introduced in 1960, '61, something like that. But nobody could do a proper","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3307.0,3314.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/568","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trial of Sabin vaccine in the U.S. First of all, the kids have received Salk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3314.0,3322.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/569","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine, and you needed a set of kids who hadn't been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3322.0,3328.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/570","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nimmunized. So most of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3328.0,3331.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/571","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trials were done in Russia and elsewhere and were never done properly. Nobody","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3331.0,3338.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/572","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did proper trials in those countries in Eastern Europe, Russia and other Eastern","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3338.0,3345.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/573","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"European countries. So what never came out clearly was that Sabin vaccine caused","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3345.0,3352.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/574","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some cases of polio, and Albert Sabin certainly wasn't eager to publicize that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3352.0,3359.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/575","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At any rate, it did turn out, and the Russians didn't give a damn about safety","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3359.0,3367.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/576","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as long as there wasn't a big problem. In other words, if one kid got paralyzed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3367.0,3375.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/577","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and a hundred kids were protected against paralysis, that was a reasonable","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3375.0,3381.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/578","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"tradeoff for them, but not in the West. They basically massively immunized in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3381.0,3388.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/579","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Russia and markedly ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3388.0,3390.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/580","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nreduced paralytic polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3390.0,3391.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/581","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On that basis, and I can't tell you about the licensing of the Sabin vaccine, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3391.0,3399.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/582","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"got licensed in the U.S. Although the Salk advocates, and it wasn't just Jonas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3399.0,3406.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/583","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk, Let me put it this way, between 1955 and, let's say, 1960, using only Salk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3406.0,3414.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/584","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine, the incidence of polio in the United States dropped by maybe tenfold,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3414.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/585","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from maybe twenty thousand paralytic cases a year to two thousand. It wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3420.0,3426.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/586","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eradicated, but it was markedly reduced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3426.0,3429.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/587","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were those who felt that we should just continue with Salk vaccine, but, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3429.0,3436.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/588","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"can't tell you what the arguments were because I wasn't involved, but a decision","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3436.0,3443.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/589","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was made to shift to Sabin vaccine, I think in part because the hope that this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3443.0,3451.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/590","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would further ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3451.0,3452.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/591","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nreduce polio, which it did. In fact, some countries in Europe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3452.0,3457.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/592","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"never did shift to Sabin vaccine, and they managed to eradicate polio also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3457.0,3463.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/593","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it wasn't really quite clear, but one thing that was clearly known was that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3463.0,3470.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/594","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk vaccine did not do a very good job about creating mucosal immunity. Sabin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3470.0,3477.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/595","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine did, because it infected the gut and produced mucosal immunity. People","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3477.0,3483.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/596","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who had been immunized with Sabin vaccine no longer could act as links in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3483.0,3490.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/597","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"chain of infection. Salk vaccinees were protected against paralytic paralysis,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3490.0,3495.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/598","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but could still get infected and pass the virus on, could act as links in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3495.0,3503.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/599","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"chain of infection. So that was one of the arguments. And Sabin vaccine was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3503.0,3510.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/600","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cheaper to make and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3510.0,3512.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/601","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\neasier to administer, no injections, just virus on a sugar","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3512.0,3517.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/602","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"pill was a drop of vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3517.0,3520.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/603","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sabin vaccine was introduced, and in spite of that, there was still a residual","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3520.0,3527.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/604","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of kids who had never been immunized. I mean no program is 100 percent, and in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3527.0,3535.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/605","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the United States there was something like ten million kids not immunized. At","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3535.0,3541.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/606","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"any one point in time, even after Sabin vaccine was introduced, there were ten","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3541.0,3548.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/607","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"million unimmunized individuals. And it was thought that the same ten million","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3548.0,3554.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/608","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would be sufficient to keep the wild polio virus circulating, even though the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3554.0,3560.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/609","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rest of the population was immune.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3560.0,3563.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/610","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Suddenly, without anybody predicting it, and sort of interesting, in the early","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3563.0,3569.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/611","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1970s, and particularly about 1972, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3569.0,3571.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/612","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nit suddenly became apparent that we had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3571.0,3574.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/613","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eradicated polio, wild polio, in the US. There was none. That was only","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3574.0,3580.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/614","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"recognized in retrospect. That was not predicted by anybody, although some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3580.0,3585.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/615","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people might, in retrospect, deny that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3585.0,3588.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/616","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Suddenly, the whole idea of eradicating polio came out of that. A guy named Ciro","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3588.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/617","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"de Quadros, who ran a polio program for the Pan American Health Organization,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3595.0,3601.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/618","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"part of WHO [World Health Organization], located in Washington, decided to push","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3601.0,3606.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/619","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this for South America, and he eradicated polio in South America using Sabin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3606.0,3612.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/620","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine. Meanwhile, of course, in Cuba, which is only a small island, they had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3612.0,3618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/621","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"done the same. So suddenly, there was no wild polio in the whole of the western","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3618.0,3625.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/622","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hemisphere, and that led in 1988 to the WHO waking up and saying, let's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3625.0,3631.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/623","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eradicate polio for the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3631.0,3633.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/624","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nworld. If you can do it in the western hemisphere, why","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3633.0,3639.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/625","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not the world? As I say, the rest is history, although it's a rather complicated history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3639.0,3647.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/626","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So do you think it was linked to, because smallpox had been eradicated","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3647.0,3654.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/627","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shortly before this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3654.0,3656.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/628","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, no, no, no. The assumption is, a perfectly reasonable assumption","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3656.0,3662.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/629","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was, if you do the numbers, based either on immunization histories or on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3662.0,3669.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/630","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"serological surveys in a large population, there would be a small percentage,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3669.0,3675.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/631","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but still a very substantial number of people, at any one point in time, mainly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3675.0,3683.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/632","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"kids, who are not immunized, had never been infected, who had never been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3683.0,3690.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/633","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccinated. It was assumed that they could continue to circulate the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3690.0,3696.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/634","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nvirus. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3696.0,3697.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/635","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fact, it was a mystery why they didn't. That's the reason it wasn't predicted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3697.0,3704.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/636","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It wasn't out of stupidity, it was the assumption, a very plausible assumption.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3704.0,3711.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/637","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think the reason, and we've written papers about this back twenty-odd years","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3711.0,3718.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/638","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ago, the reason was what I mentioned before: the seasonality of polio. What one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3718.0,3725.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/639","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"has to understand is that in the low part of the season, there's almost no polio","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3725.0,3733.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/640","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"transmission, and that's in March of each year. The difference between the high","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3733.0,3740.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/641","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the low is extraordinary. The reason, likely, is that in the low the virus","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3740.0,3748.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/642","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just disappeared entirely in an immunized population, because even though there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3748.0,3754.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/643","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3754.0,3755.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/644","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfew unimmunized people, there was so little natural transmission that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3755.0,3760.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/645","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they weren't sufficient to maintain the virus. It just disappeared.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3760.0,3765.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/646","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What happened in the period from the mid-'60s to 1972, as we look at it, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3765.0,3772.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/647","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"number of states with no polio for a whole year gradually increased. Well, in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3772.0,3779.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/648","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the early 1960s, every state reported polio every year. Gradually, it went from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3779.0,3785.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/649","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fifty to forty-five to forty to thirty-five, and over a period of years, polio","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3785.0,3792.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/650","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"gradually disappeared. Nobody really recognized this, and then suddenly it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3792.0,3797.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/651","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"gone. Of course there was a lot of live virus around, but there was live Sabin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3797.0,3804.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/652","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine virus, but there was no wild virus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3804.0,3808.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/653","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, along with this were new methods to be able to easily distinguish the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3808.0,3815.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/654","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sabin viruses ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3815.0,3816.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/655","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfrom wild polio viruses based on genetics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3816.0,3821.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/656","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Speaking of that, there was a case, Reyes v. Wyeth. Is it true that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3821.0,3831.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/657","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you were called on to testify in that trial?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3831.0,3837.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/658","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yeah, I'd forgotten. That's a long time ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3837.0,3843.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/659","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It was an 8-month-old Texas girl. She got the Sabin vaccine, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3843.0,3852.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/660","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"several weeks later she became paralyzed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3852.0,3856.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/661","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: First of all, the CDC started to collect, right from the beginning,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3856.0,3865.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/662","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"collect cases of what's called vaccine-associated paralytic polio, VAPP. It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3865.0,3872.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/663","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"turned out that there was a clear ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3872.0,3877.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/664","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\npattern, and what we now know in retrospect","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3877.0,3882.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/665","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is, for every million kids who got their first shot of Sabin vaccine and who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3882.0,3893.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/666","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"susceptible, these are babies, infants, or toddlers, who are totally","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3893.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/667","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"susceptible, for every million, there are about two cases of paralytic polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3900.0,3908.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/668","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some of these occur in immunologically deficient kids and some occurred in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3908.0,3916.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/669","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"perfectly normal kids.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3916.0,3918.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/670","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out also that if you collected enough of these cases, there weren't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3918.0,3927.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/671","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"many of them over a period of years, there was a clear pattern. They ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3927.0,3936.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/672","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nall had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3936.0,3937.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/673","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"onset within a relatively short period of time after getting the vaccine. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3937.0,3942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/674","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there were all sorts of people who were trying to extract money from the drug","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3942.0,3948.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/675","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers for cases that occurred that were not related to the vaccine,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3948.0,3953.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/676","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because they were outside of this epidemiological window, which was a very short window.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3953.0,3959.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/677","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As I remember, that was one of those cases, but I'd have to look. I just don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3959.0,3966.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/678","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember the details of that case. But there were certainly a lot of trials, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3966.0,3972.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/679","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically what we testified was, this is the window, and if your case conforms","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3972.0,3978.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/680","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to what we know epidemiologically, then one has to assume its cause and effect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3978.0,3984.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/681","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If it's outside that window, then there are other reasons of what's going on:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3984.0,3990.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/682","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"either it isn't polio, or they weren't properly vaccinated and it was wild","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3990.0,3995.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/683","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"virus, or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3995.0,3996.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/684","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwhatever. There are a number of reasons why, but when you give all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=3996.0,4002.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/685","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that vaccine, there are going to be by happenstance cases of this and that. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4002.0,4009.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/686","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't remember the details of the Reyes case, frankly. I'm sure if I looked at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4009.0,4016.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/687","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it I would, but it's a long time ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4016.0,4020.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/688","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Having been the author of the seminal paper on the Cutter incident,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4020.0,4026.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/689","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you with Alex Langmuir, you must have been called on a lot to be an expert","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4026.0,4033.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/690","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"witness for certain things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4033.0,4035.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/691","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, actually, yeah. There was a time when I was, and I mainly would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4035.0,4042.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/692","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"look at the cases, as I say, testify in support of a manufacturer when I thought","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4042.0,4049.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/693","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that the case didn't meet the epidemiological criteria. In general, I think the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4049.0,4055.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/694","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers, I don't know what they ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4055.0,4058.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/695","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndid, negotiated settlements for the cases","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4058.0,4060.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/696","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that clearly fell within the associated parameters. Yes, I was involved, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4060.0,4065.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/697","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's a long time ago. So over a period of maybe ten or fifteen years, I may have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4065.0,4072.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/698","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"testified in a dozen cases. I don't really remember. Somebody has a record of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4072.0,4077.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/699","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, but I don't remember exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4077.0,4079.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/700","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It was all because you came in March of 1955 to CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4079.0,4084.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/701","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, you could put it that way. It was all happenstance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4084.0,4089.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/702","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: And you were the right person for the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4089.0,4093.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/703","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I don't know that I was the right person. Somebody else might","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4093.0,4098.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/704","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have done just as well, to put it bluntly. I was totally unprepared, and in no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4098.0,4104.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/705","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"way would I have been considered the right person for the job, based on my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4104.0,4110.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/706","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"training I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4110.0,4111.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/707","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Just to go back a little bit, do you remember if you worked with the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4111.0,4117.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/708","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nlab at all? Did Epi [Epidemiology Division] and the labs work together?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4117.0,4122.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/709","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Alex had his own feet of clay, and one of the things was, he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4122.0,4129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/710","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"totally hostile to laboratory people. He was just crazy about that. Alex made","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4129.0,4135.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/711","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other total crazy mistakes. He predicted, when AIDS [acquired immune deficiency","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4135.0,4140.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/712","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"syndrome] first came along, that it was just going to be a passing problem. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4140.0,4147.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/713","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't know if there is a record about that, but yeah. He totally pooh-poohed it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4147.0,4154.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/714","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as a major problem at its very beginning. But Alex had a peculiarity that he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4154.0,4161.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/715","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"believed in the shoe-leather epidemiology. But he was, for some reason, and I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4161.0,4167.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/716","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't know where this came from, totally hostile to laboratory support of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4167.0,4172.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/717","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiological studies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4172.0,4173.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/718","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At that time, CDC was in its ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4173.0,4176.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/719","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninfancy. It was maybe 1 percent of the size it is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4176.0,4181.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/720","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now. The laboratory, for some reason, was someplace in Montgomery, Alabama, as I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4181.0,4187.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/721","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember, and he was totally at odds with the guy. It was [Dr.] Morris Schaeffer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4187.0,4194.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/722","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who was in charge of the laboratory. They never worked together. It was one of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4194.0,4201.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/723","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"his blind spots. And in fact the laboratory is obviously critical, even if it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4201.0,4207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/724","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just simple-minded tests for immunity of whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4207.0,4210.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/725","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alex never worked well with laboratory people, and that was clearly his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4210.0,4215.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/726","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"limitation. He never paid any attention to what anybody else ever said about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4215.0,4221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/727","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So as a consequence, you didn't work with lab people either?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4221.0,4226.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/728","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, no, no. Let me put it this way: I think he would have said we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4226.0,4233.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/729","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could solve the Cutter incident without any lab ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4233.0,4236.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/730","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\npeople, without needing any lab","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4236.0,4239.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/731","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people, so the hell with them. We don't need them. They're extraneous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4239.0,4246.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/732","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out that in fact they were relevant because, let me mention one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4246.0,4254.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/733","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"instance, because there were vials of all these different vaccines during/after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4254.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/734","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Cutter incident that various people had in their freezers. And it turned out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4260.0,4268.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/735","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that when the laboratory retested them, they could isolate wild virus from some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4268.0,4275.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/736","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of these batches of vaccine from the Cutter. In fact, they could confirm that in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4275.0,4283.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/737","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fact there was residual live virus. And that's just one example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4283.0,4289.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/738","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Another example, by the way, where the laboratory was really critical was in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4289.0,4296.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/739","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4296.0,4297.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/740","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basic Francis Field Trial. Because what they did, they had measured the antibody","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4297.0,4304.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/741","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"responses of the kids who got the Salk vaccine. They could therefore determine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4304.0,4311.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/742","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what proportion had titers at each level, and it turned out that the protection","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4311.0,4319.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/743","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"correlated with everybody who had a titer of 1:8 or 1:4 or higher, I think it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4319.0,4328.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/744","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was 1:8. It turned out that what that proved was that if you were going to test","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4328.0,4337.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/745","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a vaccine, all you had to do was show that it had induced a neutralizing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4337.0,4345.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/746","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"antibody titer of 1:8 or greater, and that proportion of individuals would be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4345.0,4352.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/747","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"protected. So that's a really critical example of the epidemiology ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4352.0,4357.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/748","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nand lab","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4357.0,4358.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/749","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"working together. That was the Francis Field Trial. Alex, he ignored all that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4358.0,4364.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/750","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a blind side. I was just a protégé. I never argued that with him. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4364.0,4372.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/751","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other people did, but they didn't get anywhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4372.0,4376.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/752","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Through the years you've stayed involved and interested in polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4376.0,4381.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/753","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, yeah. When I went to Bodian's lab, I worked on polio for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4381.0,4387.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/754","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically half a dozen years in monkeys. And then I moved over to the School of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4387.0,4394.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/755","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public Health and I moved on to other viruses, because I was really interested,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4394.0,4400.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/756","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically, in how viruses cause disease, and polio was sort or passé at this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4400.0,4406.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/757","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"point. The vaccines were out there. They were working. And so I moved on to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4406.0,4413.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/758","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other viruses in other animal models, and that's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4413.0,4417.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/759","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbasically what I spent my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4417.0,4420.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/760","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"career on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4420.0,4421.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/761","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Did you get involved in the discussion about polio eradication?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4421.0,4427.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/762","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, only indirectly. I've certainly not been very central to it. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4427.0,4434.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/763","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did publish a couple of review pieces: one on the epidemiology, which touched on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4434.0,4442.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/764","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all that, and there were two versions of that. One around 1980, and the other I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4442.0,4451.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/765","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"think around 2010. And then also around that time I did publish a review about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4451.0,4460.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/766","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the pathogenesis of polio called, \"What We Don't Know About the Pathogenesis of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4460.0,4467.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/767","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Polio.\" So mainly it was in terms of review articles and so forth, so I really ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4467.0,4476.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/768","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwasn't working in terms of laboratory. I was working on other viruses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4476.0,4482.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/769","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What's your thinking about the possibility of polio eradication?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4482.0,4487.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/770","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Polio eradication was going like gangbusters, as everybody knows, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4487.0,4493.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/771","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's estimated that before there was any vaccine, there were, every year, around","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4493.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/772","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the globe, in terms of paralytic cases, about three hundred fifty thousand every","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4500.0,4507.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/773","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"year. We got to the point where we were down to the level of one to two","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4507.0,4516.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/774","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thousand. That's an enormous, over 99 percent reduction. At that point, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4516.0,4522.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/775","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"looked like we were going to go to zero. The line was pointing down toward zero","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4522.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/776","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very sharply, and we ran into a brick wall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4530.0,4535.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/777","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out, of course, that there ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4535.0,4539.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/778","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwere three countries that were the problem:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4539.0,4542.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/779","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nigeria, northern Nigeria, India, northern India, and a region in Afghanistan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4542.0,4547.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/780","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the tribal areas of Pakistan, one contiguous area. In the last five or six","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4547.0,4554.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/781","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years, Nigeria has been cleaned up. First, India was cleaned up by an enormous","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4554.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/782","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"effort on the part of the Indian government. Then, Nigeria, on the part of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4560.0,4567.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/783","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nigerian government, all with some extraneous help, but mainly internal. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4567.0,4572.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/784","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"only one left of the three standouts, holdouts, are these tribal areas of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4572.0,4578.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/785","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Pakistan and a bit of Afghanistan, and it's all political. These folks who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4578.0,4584.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/786","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"running things, and of course it's a constant civil war, Taliban and so forth,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4584.0,4590.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/787","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"feel that it's a government program, and they're therefore not going to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4590.0,4595.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/788","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"participate because it's done by the same ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4595.0,4598.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/789","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\npeople who have bombed their leaders","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4598.0,4601.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/790","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with drones and things like that. It's a totally political situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4601.0,4606.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/791","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is all hypothetical: if there was a ceasefire for a week and you saturated","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4606.0,4613.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/792","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"those areas with Sabin vaccine, we probably could eradicate polio forever, wild","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4613.0,4618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/793","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio. Then there's the issue of shifting from wild polio, from a Sabin vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4618.0,4624.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/794","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to Salk vaccine. That's another issue, but you probably could get rid of wild","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4624.0,4630.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/795","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio very quickly, as has been done in Cuba and so forth by mass immunization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4630.0,4637.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/796","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's all political issue, and who knows, I mean, it's been tied up with the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4637.0,4644.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/797","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"politics of, these people are very anti-USA. The vaccine is associated with the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4644.0,4650.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/798","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"USA, so we won't do it. They don't give a damn about their kids all getting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4650.0,4657.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/799","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nparalyzed. These people, by our standards, are willing to sacrifice the welfare","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4657.0,4664.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/800","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of their kids in support of their political views. So, who knows? You'd have to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4664.0,4672.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/801","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talk to the experts on the politics of that area to find out whether it's ever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4672.0,4681.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/802","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"plausible. I mean, as I say, there are precedents, where there's a civil war,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4681.0,4689.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/803","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for having a moratorium for a week or two, doing your vaccine, then going back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4689.0,4697.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/804","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to killing everybody. What can I say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4697.0,4701.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/805","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Sounds sort of counterintuitive, doesn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4701.0,4705.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/806","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, the world's full of counterintuitive happenings right now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4705.0,4710.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/807","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: I've had you talking for over an hour, so I imagine you're getting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4710.0,4718.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/808","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n tired.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4718.0,4718.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/809","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, I think we should go ahead and just finish up whatever you want","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4718.0,4725.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/810","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4725.0,4726.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/811","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So I wondered if there are any other things that you wanted to talk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4726.0,4733.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/812","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about related to polio or your time at CDC, or other people you worked with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4733.0,4740.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/813","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"during that time that you wanted to mention? Did you happen to work with [Dr.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4740.0,4747.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/814","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Phil Brachman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4747.0,4748.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/815","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I know him, certainly. No, I didn't work with him, but he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4748.0,4755.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/816","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"certainly a colleague at CDC. Let me comment about one thing. Can I comment","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4755.0,4762.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/817","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about a totally different subject?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4762.0,4764.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/818","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4764.0,4765.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/819","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: And that's about an ongoing epidemic in the United States, and that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4765.0,4771.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/820","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the AIDS epidemic. I'll make two comments about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4771.0,4775.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/821","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthis. One is, as you know, I ran","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4775.0,4779.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/822","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the office of AIDS research for two and a half years. Two comments: one about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4779.0,4786.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/823","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the vaccine development program for AIDS. We have spent more money without a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4786.0,4792.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/824","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"result on trying to develop an AIDS vaccine than any other vaccine ever invented","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4792.0,4798.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/825","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the world. In fact, you could probably put together twenty different viral","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4798.0,4804.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/826","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines, the cost of developing them, and it would be less, in the aggregate of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4804.0,4811.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/827","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"twenty, than what has been spent on trying to make an AIDS vaccine. In my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4811.0,4818.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/828","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"opinion, that's because the field is narrowed down much too rapidly on options.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4818.0,4824.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/829","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I really think that the AIDS vaccine development program, we're talking about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4824.0,4830.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/830","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investing, at least globally, probably a couple billion dollars a year on ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4830.0,4836.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/831","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nresearch, and it really needs to be re-looked at with a much more open mind, one point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4836.0,4845.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/832","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other point is this: in AIDS right now, the mantra of the month or maybe the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4845.0,4854.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/833","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"year is curing AIDS in the individual. I think that is a totally misguided goal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4854.0,4862.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/834","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it is impossible to reach, and that it totally diverts attention from what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4862.0,4869.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/835","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we should be talking about, which is curing the population and not the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4869.0,4876.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/836","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"individual. Furthermore, we do not have the tools to cure the individual, but we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4876.0,4883.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/837","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"do have the tools to cure the population. I think it's a national disgrace","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4883.0,4890.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/838","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because we do have the tools, a national disgrace that the incidence of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4890.0,4897.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/839","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAIDS has","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4897.0,4898.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/840","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not decreased in the last twenty-plus years. And let me just stop there and say","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4898.0,4904.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/841","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the number of new infections for HIV is the most important criteria, and for any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4904.0,4910.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/842","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemic, and what you want, of course, is to get to a situation where each year","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4910.0,4916.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/843","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there are fewer and fewer new infections that eventually go to zero. That's sort","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4916.0,4921.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/844","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of Epi 101.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4921.0,4922.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/845","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the United States, as maybe your listeners all know, the number of new","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4922.0,4927.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/846","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"infections in the United States, about fifty thousand a year or so, hasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4927.0,4932.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/847","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dropped for about twenty to twenty-five years. Yet we have the tools to really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4932.0,4937.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/848","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reduce this, and I think that's a national disgrace that is more of political","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4937.0,4942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/849","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"problem than any other thing. I think we should be, as a country, ashamed of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4942.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/850","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ourselves for having done so badly in the effort to control HIV and AIDS.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4948.0,4953.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/851","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those are maybe my eccentric ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4953.0,4955.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/852","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nviews, and I think the problem starts at the White","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4955.0,4959.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/853","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"House and goes on down. AIDS is a forgotten issue, and people are talking about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4959.0,4965.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/854","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a world without AIDS but aren't doing a fucking thing about it, to put it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4965.0,4971.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/855","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bluntly, in terms of really reducing the annual number of new infections. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4971.0,4977.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/856","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could go on from there, but since you asked for some further comments about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4977.0,4983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/857","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other things, to me that's more important than the polio thing, or very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4983.0,4989.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/858","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"important anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4989.0,4990.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/859","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What would you do for the population?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4990.0,4993.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/860","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, as I say, the tools are there. Remember, we have cleaned up the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4993.0,4999.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/861","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blood supply, at least in the United States and other civilized countries, for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=4999.0,5005.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/862","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all practical purposes. We have eliminated pediatric, that is, newborn, AIDS for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5005.0,5010.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/863","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all practical purposes, and one thing that we could do is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5010.0,5015.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/864","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\neliminate AIDS in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5015.0,5017.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/865","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"injecting drug users by making freely available clean needles and syringes. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5017.0,5023.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/866","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that certainly works where it's been done, so that's one thing we could do. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5023.0,5031.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/867","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other thing is that two-thirds of the AIDS that are now occurring is in the gay population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5031.0,5040.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/868","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, of course, one of the reasons why AIDS, and again, this is a political","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5040.0,5048.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/869","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"statement, has been forgotten is because the primary victims are either the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5048.0,5054.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/870","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"homeless, drug users, or African-American men and the gay population, all of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5054.0,5060.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/871","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whom are disempowered populations. If this was occurring in white women, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5060.0,5066.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/872","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would have done something. Basically, you need to go in with a lot more money","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5066.0,5074.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/873","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and with a very activist ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5074.0,5077.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/874","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nprogram. Between PEP [post-exposure prophylaxis] and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5077.0,5080.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/875","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PrEP [pre-exposure prophylaxis] and condoms and a whole variety of other things,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5080.0,5085.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/876","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it is possible to reduce transmission. In spite of the present, very effective","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5085.0,5091.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/877","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"therapies, it's much better to live without AIDS than to live with AIDS, even if","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5091.0,5098.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/878","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's just one pill a day. There are all sorts of other complications living that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5098.0,5105.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/879","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"way, which are becoming more and more apparent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5105.0,5109.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/880","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think there are a variety of things that could be done, and we probably need","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5109.0,5116.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/881","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to start out with picking a few cities which are hot spots that are interested,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5116.0,5123.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/882","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and where the Department of Public Health is interested, and really throwing a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5123.0,5129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/883","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"massive effort in to prove that as a prototype that you really could do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5129.0,5135.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/884","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something. I think it's doable, and certainly what I do ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5135.0,5139.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/885","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nknow: we're certainly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5139.0,5140.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/886","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not making the effort that we should be making in order to really try a whole","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5140.0,5146.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/887","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"variety of things. I think some of the people at CDC who are in charge of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5146.0,5152.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/888","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"AIDS program are very, very good people and, if given the mandate and the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5152.0,5157.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/889","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resources, could accomplish a lot. But it needs to start with the White House","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5157.0,5162.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/890","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and go all the way down. It has been a lost cause because the people who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5162.0,5168.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/891","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"impacted are disempowered, and so they have been ignored. I mean, that's a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5168.0,5173.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/892","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political statement, but I think it is very much a political situation. Enough","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5173.0,5178.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/893","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"said, my crotchety views.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5178.0,5179.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/894","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So you would maybe reallocate some of the money used for vaccines?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5179.0,5184.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/895","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: I wouldn't reallocate anything. If the public health service has","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5184.0,5188.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/896","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"close to a billion dollars to work on AIDS, or half a billion, I would add a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5188.0,5194.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/897","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"couple of billion dollars and a mandate. But I would ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5194.0,5198.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/898","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nalso insist that the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5198.0,5200.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/899","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political leadership of the country really get on top of this and really push","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5200.0,5207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/900","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it. I would go maybe to San Francisco, and the folks there are very, very good,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5207.0,5215.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/901","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it's one of the hot spots where you probably could, with sufficient","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5215.0,5221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/902","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resources, use that as a prototype. I've forgotten her name, but the chief AIDS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5221.0,5228.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/903","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiologist in San Francisco in the Department of Public Health is really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5228.0,5234.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/904","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"excellent. I think if you gave her a carte blanche and told her, there's no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5234.0,5241.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/905","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"limit on the resources you have, but go do it, I bet we could do it in San","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5241.0,5250.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/906","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Francisco. And then we could build on that for other cities. It's idiotic not to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5250.0,5257.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/907","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nprevent needle exchanges and so forth. So what can I say? Again, it's all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5257.0,5265.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/908","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political, and if it weren't for the self-righteous folks who think that people","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5265.0,5272.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/909","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who are drug abusers should die of AIDS, we would make needles freely available,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5272.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/910","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"harm reduction. What can I say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5280.0,5283.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/911","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It's a great public health message.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5283.0,5287.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/912","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: It is a public health message, yeah. It's true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5287.0,5292.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/913","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Well, thank you very much. This has been very interesting, and I know","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5292.0,5300.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/914","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now why everyone said to ask Neal Nathanson when I had questions!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5300.0,5306.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/915","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I hope so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5306.0,5309.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/916","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It's been a pleasure talking to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5309.0,5313.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/917","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yeah, me too, Karen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5313.0,5316.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/918","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Thanks so ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5316.0,5318.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/919","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n much!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5318.0,5348.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/transcript/69294/annotation/920","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1 ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=5348.0,5378.0"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["content172424210620240821-522984-favsbz.xml [English] [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/921","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Training in epidemiology/work with Alex Langmuir","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=0.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/922","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Nathanson describes about what it was like to train in epidemiology under Alexander Langmuir and early discoveries about flaws in the Cutter laboratory vaccines.  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","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Synopsis"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=496.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/933","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you hadn't heard of the Communicable Disease Center before, or EIS?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=496.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/934","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CDC","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EIS","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiology","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"public health","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"virology","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Subjects"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=496.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/935","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio vaccine","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk vaccine","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=496.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/936","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Specialization in polio/technology of the time","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745#t=596.0,1256.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/248745/index/84938/annotation/937","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Nathanson explains the creation of the polio surveillance unit and his experience working in polio surveillance.  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So what I want","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=32.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to say in way of introduction to Dr. Nathanson is that I've been interviewing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=39.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some other polio people, and on many questions what they said to me is, \"Oh, ask","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=45.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Neal Nathanson that, because he'll know.\" So that's what we're here to do today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=51.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"To begin, I want to say welcome to Dr. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=57.0,61.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nNathanson, and thank you for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=61.0,64.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"participating in this project. Your name comes up over and over again in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=64.0,71.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"history of polio, and with all of the things that you did to contribute to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=71.0,79.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"research and development of the polio program. What I would like to start with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=79.0,86.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is for you to tell me a little bit about your background, and how you came to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=86.0,95.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"interested in medicine and in CDC and public health specifically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=95.0,100.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Right, so after I graduated from medical school, I was at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=100.0,107.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"University of Chicago doing a residency. This was in the early spring of 1955,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=107.0,114.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and my local draft board in Cambridge, Massachusetts, sent me a notice that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=114.0,121.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"under the then-existing ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=121.0,123.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndoctor draft, within a month or so I was going to be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=123.0,128.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"drafted into the military to do my doctor draft obligation. Furthermore, they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=128.0,133.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"threatened that they might induct me as a buck private, in spite of the fact","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=133.0,140.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it was supposed to be a doctor draft. At that point I was in a panic,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=140.0,148.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because I didn't know what to do, and I had no time and I was very busy as a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=148.0,157.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resident and I had no contacts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=157.0,160.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I went to one person I knew who was the chief resident in medicine, a fellow","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=160.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"named [Dr. J. Thomas] Tom Grayston, who subsequently became the dean of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=168.0,174.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"School of Public Health at the University of Washington, and I asked him, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=174.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"explained the situation and asked him for advice. It ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=180.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nhappened, by just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=184.0,186.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"happenstance, that he had just completed a two-year tour of duty in Atlanta as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=186.0,194.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an Epidemic Intelligence Service officer, so he knew Dr. Alexander [D.] Langmuir","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=194.0,200.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at CDC [Center for Disease Control], who was the head of the epidemiology","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=200.0,207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program at CDC and who had invented the Epidemic Intelligence Service. And he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=207.0,214.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"called Dr. Langmuir and explained that I was desperately looking for a position,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=214.0,221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it so happened, for reasons I never did understand, that there was one open","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=221.0,229.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"slot in the program that had never been filled in the previous recruiting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=229.0,236.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"season. And Tom Grayston persuaded Alex Langmuir to offer me this slot, sight unseen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=236.0,244.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=244.0,245.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nMarch of 1955, early spring, I ended up in Atlanta and was assigned a desk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=245.0,255.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the epidemiology, it was the floor that the epidemiology department had. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=255.0,264.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't have any assignment. Langmuir was waiting for someplace to assign me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=264.0,273.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then on, I think it was April 11, 1955, the result of the Francis Field","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=273.0,284.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Trial, which is a trial of Salk vaccine, was announced, and the vaccine was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=284.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shown to be both safe and quite effective. At that point there was a rapid","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=293.0,303.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"effort to deploy some ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=303.0,306.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=306.0,307.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was interesting, Basil O'Connor, who was the director of the NFIP [National","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=307.0,314.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Foundation for Infantile Paralysis], the National Foundation for Infantile","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=314.0,319.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Paralysis, who had subsidized this trial, different than nowadays, when the NIH","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=319.0,325.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[National Institutes of Health] or a drug company subsidizes. So the NFIP had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=325.0,332.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"subsidized the Francis Field trial. But Basil O'Connor, in his wisdom, had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=332.0,338.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"looked ahead and said, if the trial is successful there will be a demand for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=338.0,346.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine. So he had personally commissioned and paid five or six manufacturers to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=346.0,353.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacture some prototype lots of Salk vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=353.0,357.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in those days things were done rather informally, and so in Ann Arbor,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=357.0,364.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Michigan, in the aftermath, the day or two ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=364.0,368.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfollowing the successful trial, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=368.0,371.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"informal, like, I wasn't there, I don't know the details. The decision was made,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=371.0,378.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on the part of the public health service, I guess, to license Salk vaccine based","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=378.0,386.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on the trial, and also to license these lots of vaccine which had been produced","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=386.0,394.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on spec, commissioned by the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=394.0,400.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"immediately they started distributing and injecting children. As I remember, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=400.0,406.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"priority was given to the five- to nine-year-olds, because it was a limited","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=406.0,413.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"amount of vaccine, and the vaccine was supposed to do the most good in these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=413.0,421.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"kids who have the highest-rate risk for polio. I can go on from there, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=421.0,428.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbut maybe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=428.0,429.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I should stop for a minute and see if you had questions at this point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=429.0,435.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: As I understand it, Tom Grayston was in the first EIS [Epidemic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=435.0,440.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intelligence Service] class in 1951. Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=440.0,443.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Apparently, in my memory, but I may have this wrong, was that he had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=443.0,449.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just returned, and that wouldn't quite make sense, but maybe he had returned a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=449.0,454.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"few years earlier. I know he was the chief resident, and some of the facts I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=454.0,460.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"never did know. We're talking about a long time ago, so I may have forgotten","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=460.0,466.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some of the detail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=466.0,468.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It sounds like it was sort of serendipitous that you knew him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=468.0,473.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, he was the chief resident. I never heard of the Epidemic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=473.0,478.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intelligence Service or Alex Langmuir or CDC. I just went to him for advice, you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=478.0,484.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know, what should I do? One thing I didn't particularly want to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=484.0,489.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndo was spend two","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=489.0,491.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years, as my brother did, in Iceland as a general practitioner for the Air Force","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=491.0,498.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"base that the English had in Iceland. So that was the kind of thing I wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=498.0,505.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"particularly interested in doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=505.0,507.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So you hadn't heard of the Communicable Disease Center before, or EIS?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=507.0,513.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, no. I knew nothing. All I knew was, I wanted to do something I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=513.0,520.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thought would be a little more interesting than being a general practitioner at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=520.0,526.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a military base somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=526.0,528.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: When you arrived at CDC, you didn't have an assignment, but did you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=528.0,534.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have training?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=534.0,535.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No. So I had been through medical school, and I was a reasonably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=535.0,541.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"competent clinical person in general medicine at that point, but I had no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=541.0,547.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"background in epidemiology, virology, vaccines, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=547.0,550.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nknew nothing about any of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=550.0,553.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: You, of course, had heard about the polio vaccine, the Salk vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=553.0,559.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes, I mean, but vaguely. I wasn't into public health or anything","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=559.0,565.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like that, so I knew about it vaguely, but remember, I was totally preoccupied","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=565.0,572.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with totally other things. Going through medical school, they didn't talk about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=572.0,578.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, particularly. They weren't into preventive medicine, and as a resident I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=578.0,584.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was taking care of acutely sick patients in the hospital: heart attacks,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=584.0,590.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"diabetes, problems like that. And I wasn't into pediatrics, which is where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=590.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines were focused, and polio, remember, was mainly a pediatric problem. So,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=596.0,602.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"no, I was a totally blank slate on all the relevant information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=602.0,608.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: How did it happen that you began to specialize in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=608.0,613.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n polio?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=613.0,614.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, what happened, very simply, was, toward the end of April, 1955,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=614.0,621.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there came reports that some of the kids, I think the first one was a baby or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=621.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"toddler from Chicago, was reported to have developed acute paralytic polio at a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=630.0,637.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"time when natural polio was at its very low incidence. I should mention in this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=637.0,645.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"connection that before the vaccines, polio in the United States was extremely","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=645.0,652.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"seasonal, and the high point was in late August, early September. The low point","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=652.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was in March, something like February, March, April, and the low point, there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=660.0,667.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was almost no polio occurring in the United States, paralytic polio or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=667.0,674.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninfections. A few cases in children or adults at that time of year were very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=674.0,682.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"notable, whereas in the middle of the summer nobody would've paid much","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=682.0,688.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"attention. And then it turned out that these were individuals who had just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=688.0,695.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"received, a few weeks before, the newly distributed Salk vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=695.0,700.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So at that point Alex Langmuir decided to create a unit, and I'll explain what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=700.0,708.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this unit was, called the Polio Surveillance Unit, and that was simply a single","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=708.0,715.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"office in which sat the secretary, a woman named Maryann Lyle, myself, and I'll","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=715.0,722.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"get back to that in a moment, and a statistician, who eventually became a fellow","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=722.0,730.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"named [Dr. William Jackson] Jack Hall, who was also an EIS officer, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=730.0,736.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbecause EIS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=736.0,737.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had taken a few people who were statisticians as well as mainly medically","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=737.0,743.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trained people. But I was assigned to head this, well, first of all, Alex called","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=743.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this the Polio Surveillance Unit. He created that name and as far as being the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=750.0,757.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"head of it, he just designated me as the head of this newly created unit, just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=757.0,765.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these three people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=765.0,766.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were just down the hall from him, so he basically instructed us on a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=766.0,774.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"daily basis what we should be doing, and the job superficially was very simple.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=774.0,781.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We should collect all the cases of polio that were occurring in the United","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=781.0,788.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"States, and the first thing we had to do was create a standard form that had ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=788.0,796.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninformation about these cases, and particularly with respect to whether or not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=796.0,802.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they had gotten polio vaccine, and then put this information together in an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=802.0,808.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"orderly fashion and distribute it back to the people it was coming from. And the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=808.0,815.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people that it was coming from were, in every state there was a state health","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=815.0,822.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"officer and a state department of public health, and there was also a state","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=822.0,829.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiologist. That was an existing structure, and it was the responsibility of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=829.0,835.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the state epidemiologist to investigate, collect information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=835.0,838.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Remember, there were only very few cases of polio, or any cases of polio,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=838.0,845.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"occurring in their state on a daily basis, and to complete these forms which we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=845.0,852.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"distributed, of course, everything in those days, there was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=852.0,856.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nno Internet, there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=856.0,858.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was no email, the telephone, was very cumbersome. And there was the regular mail","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=858.0,865.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"system, and all the information that we put together was typed out by Maryann","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=865.0,872.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lyle every day on a mimeograph machine, and then that mimeograph was copied a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=872.0,879.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hundred times over, and there was a mailing list, and every day a report was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=879.0,887.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sent to all the five hundred people, including the state epidemiologist. Of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=887.0,893.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"course, the state epidemiologist could reach out, in each county, or many","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=893.0,899.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"counties, under the state there were public health officers, and then Alex","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=899.0,905.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Langmuir assigned some of the EIS officers on an emergency basis to help","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=905.0,912.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investigate these cases and complete this form.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=912.0,916.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=916.0,917.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nour job sitting in Atlanta was to take all this information in and actually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=917.0,923.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"create what we called a line listing. For each case there was a listing, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=923.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"initials of the individual, their age, if they got the vaccine, when they got","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=930.0,936.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it, and when they developed polio, et cetera, et cetera, some very basic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=936.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"information. And we put this line listing together and every day it went out on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=942.0,949.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"five hundred copies that were mimeographed by Maryann Lyle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=949.0,953.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Quite a different communication system, wasn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=953.0,957.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Very primitive. Remember, I knew nothing about how to do any of this,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=957.0,963.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and Alex had to sort of show me how to put together, once a week we would do a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=963.0,971.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"summary, how to put together even simple tables that were child's play, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=971.0,977.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"nobody ever instructed ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=977.0,978.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nme how to put together even a simple table that showed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=978.0,983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for each state how many cases, et cetera, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=983.0,988.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So you had no training in epidemiology.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=988.0,992.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, no. In fact, I was the only EIS officer in history who had never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=992.0,999.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"taken the EIS course, because the way the program worked. It was a two-year","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=999.0,1005.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program and the first month of the program was an intensive course in the basic","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1005.0,1012.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"methods of epidemiology. But I never took that course, because I arrived in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1012.0,1018.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"middle of the year and all the other EIS officers had taken the course. So I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1018.0,1025.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"didn't even have that background of basic instruction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1025.0,1029.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What was Alex Langmuir like to work with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1029.0,1033.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, at this point I was totally untutored and he ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1033.0,1038.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwas an","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1038.0,1039.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"accomplished field epidemiologist and so he was very, very helpful. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1039.0,1044.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember, at this point in terms of public health emergencies and epidemics,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1044.0,1050.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this was the number one issue in the whole of the United States. What I'm trying","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1050.0,1058.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to say in another way is this outbreak of cases was on the front page of the New","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1058.0,1067.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"York Times every day for two months. That is almost unheard of, even Zika","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1067.0,1074.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doesn't make the front page of the New York Times every day for two months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1074.0,1081.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this was the number one hot issue, so I would say that everything we did,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1081.0,1089.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember Alex was only a hundred feet down the hall. He was watching over us","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1089.0,1096.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very, very closely, so in a sense ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1096.0,1099.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\neverything I did was under his immediate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1099.0,1102.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"direction. Obviously, certain routine things, we learned pretty quickly what was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1102.0,1107.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"expected of us, and so he didn't have to repeat the instructions about those","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1107.0,1114.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"things. We were working fourteen-hour days also, because each day we had to get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1114.0,1121.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out a report before the end of the day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1121.0,1125.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember I went home and fell into bed and slept like a log and got up the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1125.0,1133.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"next morning and went to work. That was all there was in my day, so it was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1133.0,1141.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very intensive kind of thing, and what we were doing in retrospect was quite","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1141.0,1148.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"simple. And then what immediately came out of all this data collection was, as I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1148.0,1155.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mentioned, it was the manufacturer situation. One thing ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1155.0,1159.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthat became very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1159.0,1161.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apparent very early was, there was an unusual concentration of these cases","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1161.0,1168.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"occurring in children who had gotten polio vaccine, and that concentration was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1168.0,1175.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in two states: Idaho and California. Now, it turned out that when the vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1175.0,1183.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that the NFIP had ordered was distributed, it didn't just go randomly from the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1183.0,1191.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"six manufacturers all over the country. It turned out that the vaccine that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1191.0,1199.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"made by one manufacturer went mainly to California and Idaho, and that was the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1199.0,1207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cutter Laboratories in Berkeley, California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1207.0,1210.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Immediately, it became clear that many of these cases, the great, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1210.0,1217.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ngreat bulk of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1217.0,1219.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them, were in kids who got the vaccine manufactured by one of the five or six","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1219.0,1228.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers, and that was the Cutter Laboratories. So even early on, before we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1228.0,1235.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did any formal analysis, at a glance, almost, it was apparent that there was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1235.0,1243.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something peculiar. There was a clear association between the vaccine made by","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1243.0,1249.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one manufacturer and the great bulk of these cases, and that, of course, led to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1249.0,1257.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what subsequently was called the Cutter incident, and again, Alex Langmuir was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1257.0,1263.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the person who gave it that particular name. So maybe I'll stop there for a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1263.0,1271.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"moment and get your next question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1271.0,1274.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: How many other pharmaceutical companies ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1274.0,1277.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwere there involved in vaccines?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1277.0,1279.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I'd have to check the originals. My memory is there were a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1279.0,1285.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"total of five or six, I don't remember, but there were Park Davis and Lily and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1285.0,1292.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've forgotten the names. I should mention also, by the way, that the other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1292.0,1298.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers were better-known, more established companies than the Cutter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1298.0,1302.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Laboratories. I don't think they had made any vaccines. This was the first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1302.0,1308.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine they made, whereas the other manufacturers had made other kinds of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1308.0,1313.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines for other infectious diseases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1313.0,1315.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Did they all have the same protocol to follow?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1315.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. The protocol to produce the vaccine was one made by [Dr.] Jonas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1320.0,1326.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk, and when I say that the vaccine was licensed, it was licensed, part of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1326.0,1333.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"licensing, although I can't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1333.0,1335.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndescribe the detail because I wasn't involved in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1335.0,1340.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, included a protocol about how to make the vaccine following Salk's recipe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1340.0,1348.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And basically, just a moment to describe it in general, basically, there were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1348.0,1356.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"three types of polio virus; one, two and three, they were called. Each one was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1356.0,1365.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"grown in a standard tissue culture in large carboys, and the cultures were then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1365.0,1373.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"infected with the polio virus, and after a certain point of time those cells","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1373.0,1381.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were killed and the virus was released. And that fluid, which consisted of dead","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1381.0,1389.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cells and a lot of virus, was then subjected to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1389.0,1395.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nformaldehyde treatment at 37","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1395.0,1397.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"degrees for a couple of weeks, they were cooked, and that was to render the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1397.0,1405.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"live, infectious virus theoretically inactive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1405.0,1408.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What Salk had shown was that this inactivated virus was, first of all,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1408.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"non-infectious, and, secondly, was immunogenic. In other words, it could induce","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1415.0,1421.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an immune response in humans that would protect them against polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1421.0,1427.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Was there, then, a way to test the vaccine before they went out,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1427.0,1434.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"before the vials went out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1434.0,1437.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. Yes. Every lot of vaccine, and again, this was not what I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1437.0,1445.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"involved with, others were, and would be more knowledgeable, in my best memory,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1445.0,1452.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"every lot of vaccine, part of the protocol was testing each lot for both ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1452.0,1459.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n safety","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1459.0,1460.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and effectiveness, or at least certainly for safety. The way that was done was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1460.0,1468.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to take samples of the vaccine and inject it, as I remember, inject it into both","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1468.0,1478.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"monkeys and maybe tissue cultures to see, to prove that there was no live virus,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1478.0,1487.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"residual live virus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1487.0,1489.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In fact, in retrospect, it turned out that Cutter, the Cutter Laboratories, had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1489.0,1497.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a lot of trouble inactivating the vaccine during the inactivation process. That","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1497.0,1504.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is, apparently many of the batches they made failed to pass their own internal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1504.0,1512.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"safety tests. And however, because this was not part of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1512.0,1519.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nprotocol, they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1519.0,1520.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apparently just poured those down the drain and never reported their problems","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1520.0,1527.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to, I've forgotten what it was called, it was the predecessor of the FDA [Food","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1527.0,1536.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and Drug Administration], the Laboratory of Biologics, as I remember, it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1536.0,1543.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"called, at any rate, so that in fact the central certifying U.S. government","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1543.0,1551.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"entity in Washington was unaware of the problems they had been having.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1551.0,1558.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The lots of Cutter vaccine which were released had passed their safety tests, at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1558.0,1566.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"least appeared to have passed their safety tests, but it was clear that, in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1566.0,1574.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retrospect, they were questionable, because of the failure to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1574.0,1579.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nconsistently pass","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1579.0,1580.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"safety tests. So yes, there was a clear indication that they were having","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1580.0,1587.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivation problems. That was never reported to the Laboratory of Biologics at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1587.0,1593.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NIH, as I understand it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1593.0,1596.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Were the people at Cutter concerned? Did they consult anyone, knowing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1596.0,1602.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that they had problems?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1602.0,1604.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I can't tell you that, but my impression is no, that in fact","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1604.0,1612.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they concealed their problems. They were in denial, which of course in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1612.0,1618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retrospect was a terrible mistake. I think what they probably knew was, if they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1618.0,1625.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had reported these problems, they would have been told to cease and desist","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1625.0,1632.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"making vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1632.0,1633.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: That would have set them back?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1633.0,1637.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, they would have abandoned that program. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1637.0,1641.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAgain, they were not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1641.0,1643.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"officially breaking any of the rules. In retrospect, the rules were changed so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1643.0,1649.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that no vaccine could be released if it wasn't part of at least a run of five","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1649.0,1657.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"consecutive batches that passed safety tests. But that was not in the original protocol.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1657.0,1664.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It sounds like they were responsible for doing their own safety","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1664.0,1670.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"testing and then making the decision about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1670.0,1674.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. It was not written into the protocol. There was not good","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1674.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oversight, and in retrospect that was changed. The protocols were changed after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1680.0,1686.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Cutter incident to require much better federal oversight of manufacturing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1686.0,1691.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and safety testing. Also, since you are on the subject, I should mention: it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1691.0,1698.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"became fairly clear what ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1698.0,1700.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthe problem was with the Cutter vaccine, and that is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1700.0,1705.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because the batches of vaccine were prepared from these cell cultures with all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1705.0,1712.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these dead cells floating around. There was a filtration step where the fluid","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1712.0,1719.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was put through a filter that would hold back the residual cells and parts of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1719.0,1727.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cells, but would let the virus, which is much smaller, go through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1727.0,1733.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"However, that filtration step did not completely remove all the particulate","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1733.0,1739.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"matter, and in fact, apparently, if you looked at these carboys which are being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1739.0,1746.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivated, at the bottom you could see a dusting of particulate matter. It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1746.0,1753.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"turned out that all you had to do was add a couple of additional filtration","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1753.0,1761.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"steps and you ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1761.0,1763.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ncould get rid of that particulate matter. So apparently what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1763.0,1769.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"happened was that aggregates of the virus were being created during the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1769.0,1776.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivation. Those aggregates would protect some particles from ever being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1776.0,1782.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"inactivated, and if you filtered those aggregates out, what came through would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1782.0,1789.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be totally safe. So that was also part of the change in protocol, adding some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1789.0,1798.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"filtration steps.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1798.0,1799.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: That gets us up to the point where the immunization program had begun","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1799.0,1807.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all over the country with five different pharmaceutical companies, including","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1807.0,1813.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cutter, and you said how long afterwards were the cases being noticed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1813.0,1820.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: What happened was that, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1820.0,1823.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nand I've forgotten exactly the timing here,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1823.0,1827.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's all in the records, within a couple of weeks a decision was made, not at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1827.0,1835.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CDC, but in consultation with Alex, was made by the Laboratory of Biologics, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1835.0,1842.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public Health Service, to terminate the vaccine program, or suspend it, is a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1842.0,1849.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"better word. So no further vaccine was being used at that point. The idea was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1849.0,1857.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that they wanted to wait until there was a clear idea of what was going wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1857.0,1865.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Within, I think it was by the first of June approximately, 1955, because the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1865.0,1872.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whole focus was on Cutter, clearly no Cutter vaccine was going to be further","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1872.0,1879.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"released. But the other ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1879.0,1881.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfour or five manufacturers, their vaccine, with one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1881.0,1885.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"possible exception that we may come to, was apparently okay in terms of being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1885.0,1892.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"safe in use. Each of the manufacturers was visited by an expert group. I wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1892.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"part of that. These were mainly virologists and production people, and they","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1900.0,1906.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reviewed the production protocols at each manufacturer, and over the next month","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1906.0,1912.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or so they relicensed the vaccine being produced by those manufacturers. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1912.0,1918.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"program was then recommenced, but not much vaccine, as I remember, was being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1918.0,1925.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"given until maybe the following fall or maybe even the spring of 1956, because","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1925.0,1932.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of all the national concern.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1932.0,1935.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You have to remember also another comment: I mentioned that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1935.0,1940.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthis was on the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1940.0,1942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"front page of the New York Times every day for two months. What was at stake was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1942.0,1950.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not only the credibility of Salk vaccine, but all vaccines. In other words,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1950.0,1956.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there was an outcry that we should abandon all vaccine for every disease in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1956.0,1963.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whole country because none of these vaccines were safe. There was a lot more at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1963.0,1970.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stake than just polio vaccine, which was a big enough deal in itself. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1970.0,1977.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"relicensing was done partly to reassure the public that, in fact, polio vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1977.0,1983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could be safely produced, or polio vaccine could be produced that was safe to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1983.0,1990.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"use and would be effective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1990.0,1992.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Meanwhile, we were collecting these cases, but most of the cases, in other","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1992.0,1998.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"words, had been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1998.0,1999.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nimmunized and had received Cutter vaccine or other vaccines from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=1999.0,2004.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the period, well, maybe mid-April to mid-May, when the program was terminated or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2004.0,2011.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"suspended. It was about a one-month period of time when vaccine was being used,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2011.0,2019.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"including the Cutter vaccine. After that, there was a period when no vaccine was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2019.0,2027.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"used, and then the program was started up, but with manufactured vaccines that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2027.0,2034.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were safe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2034.0,2035.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We continued to collect information in detail and analyze it, but it was all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2035.0,2043.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"based on immunizations given in that one-month period: approximately from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2043.0,2048.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mid-April to mid-May in 1955.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2048.0,2051.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: How was it that CDC was the agency that was chosen to do that surveillance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2051.0,2060.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2060.0,2061.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nCDC, although it's not really called that, is the Federal Public","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2061.0,2067.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Health Service. They are, and I can't really give you a clear explanation, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2067.0,2075.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically, there's also the U.S. Public Health Service, but they really were the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2075.0,2082.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"National Public Health Service and still are. I mean, it's called the Centers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2082.0,2089.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for Disease Control and Prevention now, but they are equivalent. There is no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2089.0,2096.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other U.S. federal public health service, and the so-called \"public health","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2096.0,2102.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"service\" was really just a group of professional public health service officers","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2102.0,2108.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who were incorporated into the CDC or had other assignments, but they were not","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2108.0,2116.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"an administrative entity like a national department. That was always ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2116.0,2121.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nCDC that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2121.0,2122.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eventually became part of HEW [Department of Health, Education, and Welfare] and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2122.0,2128.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2128.0,2129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Was the National Institutes of Health [NIH] involved?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2129.0,2133.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, not really. The Laboratory of Biologics, and still is the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2133.0,2139.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Center for Biologic Control, happens to occupy a building on the NIH campus, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2139.0,2146.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"no, that's a separate entity. The NIH was a research organization, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2146.0,2152.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eventually this became incorporated into the Food and Drug Administration, which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2152.0,2157.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is a separate entity responsible for vaccines, food, drugs and so forth. It's a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2157.0,2164.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"totally separate operation really dealing with licensing and quality control,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2164.0,2169.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they do research, but only research in support of that mission.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2169.0,2175.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So CDC became known more after the Cutter incident?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2175.0,2180.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2180.0,2180.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nWell, again, I'm not the one to really comment about that. I mean,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2180.0,2186.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these things evolved in sort of a happenstance way. Remember, the NIH was really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2186.0,2193.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"created, more or less, after the Second World War, although there had been a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2193.0,2200.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"laboratory of hygiene for decades or maybe a hundred years before. We didn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2200.0,2206.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really have a system of federally funded biomedical research or grant-giving or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2206.0,2212.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"anything. People have sort of forgotten, but none of this really existed in a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2212.0,2219.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"meaningful way until after the Second World War. We really didn't have a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2219.0,2225.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"full-blown federal public health service in the same way until, I think, after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2225.0,2231.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Second World War.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2231.0,2233.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, the CDC was in Atlanta because it was originally started as a malaria","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2233.0,2240.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"control program and then evolved ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2240.0,2242.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninto infectious diseases. Originally, the CDC","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2242.0,2245.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stood for Communicable Disease Control or Center, Communicable Disease Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2245.0,2249.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then it evolved into Centers for Disease Control and Eradication. So, all of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2249.0,2255.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this has gradually evolved, but you'd have to talk to other people who can tell","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2255.0,2262.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the history of all of that much better than I can.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2262.0,2267.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: During this time, what was the reaction at the Salk lab?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2267.0,2272.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Now this has been published, so I can say it. The truth is that Jonas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2272.0,2279.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk was partly culpable here. And of course he's dead, so he can't respond, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2279.0,2286.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm sure he would deny it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2286.0,2289.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But a guy named [Dr.] Julius Youngner, the story which has been now written up","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2289.0,2296.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and published, so it's not the first time, a senior postdoctoral associate in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2296.0,2302.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Salk's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2302.0,2303.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nlaboratory was a guy named Julius Youngner. I think he may still be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2303.0,2309.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"alive. He was at the University of Pittsburgh along with Salk. And apparently,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2309.0,2315.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at least as Julius Youngner told me the story, he had a meeting and happened to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2315.0,2322.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be in San Francisco, and Salk asked him while he was there, this was not in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2322.0,2329.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"connection or direct connection with the Salk vaccine, to go across the bay to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2329.0,2335.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Berkeley and look at what was going on at the Cutter laboratories. This is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2335.0,2341.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"before the Francis Field Trial was announced, but meanwhile, of course, Salk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2341.0,2346.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"knew that Cutter, among these other manufacturers, making vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2346.0,2350.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Youngner did, I'm not sure if it was a formal, but an informal review","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2350.0,2357.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"look-see, and he was very disturbed by what he found. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2357.0,2362.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAnd he told me he went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2362.0,2365.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"back to Pittsburgh and told Salk, because of course Youngner knew all about the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2365.0,2373.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk protocols, that he felt that Cutter, the Cutter vaccine, should not be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2373.0,2380.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trusted, and should never be used. I may be misquoting him, but this is what he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2380.0,2389.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"told me some years ago face-to-face in a private verbal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2389.0,2394.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He told Salk that he should do something. Salk said, yes, I'll do something, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2394.0,2402.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he buried it because he was afraid that if he cast any question, the whole","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2402.0,2410.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine program would be called into question. Whatever, I don't know his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2410.0,2416.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"motivation, but apparently nothing ever transpired. And Youngner was very upset, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2416.0,2422.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nand he carried that upset and anger with Salk for the next forty years, that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2422.0,2429.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk had betrayed him and the program by not reporting that there was a problem","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2429.0,2436.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with Cutter vaccine and that it should not be used before it was ever distributed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2436.0,2443.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, Salk isn't here to defend himself. Julius Youngner has certainly told the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2443.0,2449.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"story to other people. Julius Youngner was a very respectable virologist. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2449.0,2454.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eventually became, as I remember, the chair of the biochemistry department at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2454.0,2459.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the University of Pittsburgh, I think in the medical school, so he's a very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2459.0,2465.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reputable guy who mainly did his career working on influenza virus. But at any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2465.0,2471.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rate, that's a bit of the story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2471.0,2474.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alex Langmuir taught me certain things. He said, not in this connection, but in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2474.0,2480.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"general, he said, \"Don't get ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2480.0,2482.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nup too close to your heroes because you'll find","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2482.0,2487.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they all have feet of clay.\" That's a direct quote from Alex, and that could","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2487.0,2495.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/428","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"apply to many situations. Apparently, that would also apply to Jonas Salk, at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2495.0,2502.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/429","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"least if this story is correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2502.0,2505.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What about Dr. Sabin, Albert Sabin?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2505.0,2509.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Remember, Sabin was not in the picture. The Sabin vaccine came along","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2509.0,2516.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"later. Sabin was supported by the NFIP to do research, but his vaccine, which","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2516.0,2523.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was a live attenuated virus and also had its limitations in terms of safety, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2523.0,2531.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he wasn't involved in this, other than bad-mouthing Salk, because he called the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2531.0,2538.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk vaccine \"kitchen chemistry,\" sort of like a Donald Trump put-down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2538.0,2544.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What can I say? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2544.0,2546.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nSabin and Salk were not natural enemies, but they were very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2546.0,2551.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fierce champions of their own product, so they wrangled. Of course, it turned","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2551.0,2557.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out that both were correct, and that each of the two vaccines had its strengths","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2557.0,2564.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and weaknesses. And the United States, as you know, went from Salk vaccine to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2564.0,2570.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sabin vaccine and now back to Salk vaccine. So, pointing out that both of these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2570.0,2577.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines had their role, and, as in many scientific controversies, it turns out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2577.0,2583.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that both sides have some right and maybe some wrong as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2583.0,2588.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: The clinical trials were finished after the Rivers,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2588.0,2592.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Right. That was, by the way, a special trial. I don't know if it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2592.0,2599.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the only, but one of the very largest trials that was ever conducted. It was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2599.0,2606.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"written up in a vast ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2606.0,2608.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbook of data with hundreds of thousands of participants,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2608.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something that would be impossible to replicate nowadays, probably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2612.0,2616.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: No informed consent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2616.0,2618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well I don't really know about that. I wasn't involved in the Francis","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2618.0,2625.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Field Trial, and there's a short version and a large book, a long version. I'm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2625.0,2632.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not sure about consent, frankly. There may have been. I really don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2632.0,2638.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Now, when you were at CDC, who else was involved from your [EIS]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2638.0,2645.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"class? Were there others?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2645.0,2647.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, basically, no. I mean, all the time I was there, as I remember,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2647.0,2654.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"originally the statistician in the EIS Unit, in the polio surveillance unit,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2654.0,2660.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"excuse me, was a guy named [Dr.] Earl Diamond. But he was involved in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2660.0,2667.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Francis Field ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2667.0,2668.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nTrial, and so he went back to the University of Michigan, to Ann","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2668.0,2673.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Arbor, to finish writing up the Francis Field Trial, because [Dr. Thomas] Tony","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2673.0,2678.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Francis wanted him there to help. It was a whole big team involved. I mean, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2678.0,2685.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"report of this trial was like three hundred pages of data. It was a vast effort.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2685.0,2692.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alex, as I remember, was annoyed at Earl Diamond, but at any rate, shortly after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2692.0,2698.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the unit was created, I don't remember exactly when, Diamond left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2698.0,2703.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Jack Hall became a good friend of mine, and is still alive, I believe, as a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2703.0,2710.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retired professor of biostatistics at the University of Rochester, Jack Hall was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2710.0,2715.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a PhD statistician, but he was an EIS officer who was brought into the unit. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2715.0,2722.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it was Maryann Lyle, the secretary, Jack Hall, and myself, and we basically were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2722.0,2728.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2728.0,2728.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were a vast number of people involved in data collection, and if you look","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2728.0,2735.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at the 1963 publication, there are three contiguous articles in the American","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2735.0,2740.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Journal of Hygiene 1963 where all the people who are involved are credited. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2740.0,2746.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"terms of data collection, we were just putting it together, but all the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2746.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shoe-leather stuff was done by dozens and dozens of dozens of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2752.0,2757.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: I have a list of the people who were involved in the Cutter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2757.0,2763.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investigation, but I think they're mostly state people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2763.0,2767.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, every state, there were people involved. And so, as I say, it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2767.0,2773.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the paper. So as far as I know, that's a complete list. And yours may be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2773.0,2781.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/480","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"also. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2781.0,2783.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/481","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: I got it from your paper.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2783.0,2786.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Oh, well, it's the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2786.0,2788.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nsame thing. Right. On the front line there were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2788.0,2792.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the state epidemiologists. Then below there were the county people and then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2792.0,2798.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there were some EIS officers. So basically the idea was that these cases would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2798.0,2804.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"be often hospitalized or almost invariably, at any rate, they would go to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2804.0,2810.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hospital, look at the record and fill out the standard form based on what was in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2810.0,2817.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the hospital record. We would often get forms that were incomplete. There were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2817.0,2823.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blanks that hadn't been filled in, and we would then keep pestering people to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2823.0,2829.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fill in the rest of the blanks. As I say, it could be anybody. The information","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2829.0,2836.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wasn't that complicated, but our job was to nag people to fill in all of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2836.0,2843.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blanks: the names, the ages, the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2843.0,2846.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwhatever. However they wanted to collect information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2846.0,2849.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was from all over the country, so there were many, many people involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2849.0,2856.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They were really the unacknowledged heroes in the trenches, because all we were","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2856.0,2862.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing was just putting together, collating all this information, and then doing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2862.0,2867.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some really quite simple-minded analysis of the data.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2867.0,2871.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What kind of tools did you have to analyze the data?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2871.0,2876.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"These are all very simple. You didn't need anything but a pencil and paper, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2876.0,2883.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you could use an adding machine if you wanted, but you know there were no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2883.0,2890.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"calculators at that time. There were these Monroe mechanical calculators, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2890.0,2895.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you could just use longhand. These analyses were very, very simple. There were a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2895.0,2901.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"few times when Jack Hall would maybe do some tests of significance and so forth, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2901.0,2908.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbut basically it was all very simple-minded stuff. I don't mean to say it wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2908.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"relevant or pertinent or didn't deliver the goods, but it wasn't complicated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2919.0,2928.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: You were at CDC for two years?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2928.0,2934.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes. The tour of duty was two years, and because I started more than","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2934.0,2945.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"partway through the year, I stayed for two-plus years. I was there from March of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2945.0,2956.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1955 to July of 1957. So I guess it was a bit more than two ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2956.0,2967.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nyears, because I was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2967.0,2969.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the class of '55. In those days, or, I guess, still, EIS classes are based on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2969.0,2978.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the year you started, not the year you graduated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2978.0,2983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: From there you went,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2983.0,2986.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/514","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: I went to Johns Hopkins then. So what happened at that point, Alex","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2986.0,2994.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/515","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Langmuir had been at Hopkins as an associate professor in the epi [epidemiology]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=2994.0,3001.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"department, and he was friendly with some of the Hopkins people. And one of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3001.0,3010.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people he was friendly with was a guy named [Dr.] David Bodian, who is really a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3010.0,3019.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basic science researcher. Dave Bodian was still at Hopkins, and his contribution","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3019.0,3026.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3026.0,3027.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndoing experiments using monkeys, but with live polio virus, to understand","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3027.0,3032.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"how the virus caused polio, otherwise called the pathogenesis of polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3032.0,3037.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Remember, this was such a hot topic, Alex Langmuir had Dave Bodian come down to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3037.0,3044.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta when all of this was going on, I think twice, I don't remember exactly,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3044.0,3051.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but give a couple of lectures about his background information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3051.0,3056.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is like Ebola was a little while ago and Zika is now, but even much hotter","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3056.0,3064.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/526","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to talk about what he and other people knew about the pathogenesis of polio. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3064.0,3071.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/527","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"heard these talks and I was sort of entranced by this kind of research. So when","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3071.0,3079.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/528","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"my time to complete EIS came to an end, I wrote David ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3079.0,3085.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/529","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nBodian, with Alex's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3085.0,3087.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/530","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"knowledge and maybe support, and said I was really fascinated by what he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3087.0,3094.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/531","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing, and could I come and do a postdoc with him? Remember, I didn't have a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3094.0,3102.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/532","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"research background. I had an MD, but that wasn't research. In those days,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3102.0,3109.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/533","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rather than get combined degrees, which weren't available, MD/PhD, people who","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3109.0,3115.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/534","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"are interested in research would go through medical school and then do a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3115.0,3122.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/535","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"postdoc, where they would do research training usually for two to four years,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3122.0,3129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/536","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and then they would move on to become independent researchers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3129.0,3134.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/537","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At any rate, Bodian wrote back and said he was funded by the NFIP. And he wrote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3134.0,3143.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/538","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and said he had asked them if ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3143.0,3147.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/539","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthey would add to his grant a slot for a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3147.0,3152.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/540","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"postdoctoral researcher for training, and they said yes. And so he said, I've","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3152.0,3158.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/541","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"created a slot, and wrote me, you can come to Baltimore. So that's where I ended","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3158.0,3166.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/542","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"up, in the anatomy department, oddly enough, but that's another story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3166.0,3171.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/543","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: And you worked with Dr. Bodian?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3171.0,3174.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/544","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: With Dr. Bodian, yes. So I ended up as a postdoctoral fellow in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3174.0,3181.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/545","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bodian's lab. He had been in the epi department at Hopkins, although he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3181.0,3188.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/546","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"doing basic science stuff, but it was in support of polio vaccine. Just before I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3188.0,3195.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/547","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"came to Hopkins, Bodian moved from the school of public health across the street","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3195.0,3202.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/548","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to the medical school to be the head of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3202.0,3207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/549","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nanatomy department, and so I ended","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3207.0,3210.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/550","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"up in the anatomy department. Not that I had any interest in anatomy, but that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3210.0,3217.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/551","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"where he was, so that's where I was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3217.0,3221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/552","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What was he like to work with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3221.0,3225.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/553","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Oh, he was great. He was great. Dave Bodian was a true scientist. He","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3225.0,3232.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/554","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wasn't like Sabin and Salk, who were advocates. In fact, he refused to get","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3232.0,3239.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/555","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"involved in all those controversies. He was much more dispassionate about, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3239.0,3245.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/556","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"does the science say, and so he recognized that there were advantages and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3245.0,3251.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/557","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"disadvantages of both vaccines and so forth. So his interest was in asking, what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3251.0,3258.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/558","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"are the pertinent scientific questions? And what experiments can we do to try to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3258.0,3265.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/559","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"answer them? He was a great mentor. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3265.0,3269.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/560","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nstayed there from 1957 to 1964 and then I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3269.0,3274.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/561","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"moved to the epi department in the school of public health.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3274.0,3280.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/562","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: That would have been what year?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3280.0,3284.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/563","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: 1964 I moved over to the epidemiology department, and I was there and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3284.0,3291.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/564","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from 1964 to 1979.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3291.0,3293.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/565","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So in the 1960s is when the Sabin vaccine started to be used?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3293.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/566","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yes, right. I was not involved in that, but yes. Well, Sabin vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3300.0,3307.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/567","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was introduced in 1960, '61, something like that. But nobody could do a proper","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3307.0,3314.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/568","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trial of Sabin vaccine in the U.S. First of all, the kids have received Salk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3314.0,3322.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/569","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine, and you needed a set of kids who hadn't been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3322.0,3328.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/570","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nimmunized. So most of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3328.0,3331.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/571","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"trials were done in Russia and elsewhere and were never done properly. Nobody","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3331.0,3338.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/572","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did proper trials in those countries in Eastern Europe, Russia and other Eastern","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3338.0,3345.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/573","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"European countries. So what never came out clearly was that Sabin vaccine caused","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3345.0,3352.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/574","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some cases of polio, and Albert Sabin certainly wasn't eager to publicize that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3352.0,3359.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/575","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At any rate, it did turn out, and the Russians didn't give a damn about safety","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3359.0,3367.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/576","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as long as there wasn't a big problem. In other words, if one kid got paralyzed","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3367.0,3375.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/577","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and a hundred kids were protected against paralysis, that was a reasonable","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3375.0,3381.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/578","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"tradeoff for them, but not in the West. They basically massively immunized in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3381.0,3388.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/579","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Russia and markedly ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3388.0,3390.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/580","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nreduced paralytic polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3390.0,3391.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/581","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On that basis, and I can't tell you about the licensing of the Sabin vaccine, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3391.0,3399.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/582","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"got licensed in the U.S. Although the Salk advocates, and it wasn't just Jonas","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3399.0,3406.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/583","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk, Let me put it this way, between 1955 and, let's say, 1960, using only Salk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3406.0,3414.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/584","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine, the incidence of polio in the United States dropped by maybe tenfold,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3414.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/585","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from maybe twenty thousand paralytic cases a year to two thousand. It wasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3420.0,3426.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/586","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eradicated, but it was markedly reduced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3426.0,3429.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/587","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were those who felt that we should just continue with Salk vaccine, but, I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3429.0,3436.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/588","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"can't tell you what the arguments were because I wasn't involved, but a decision","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3436.0,3443.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/589","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was made to shift to Sabin vaccine, I think in part because the hope that this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3443.0,3451.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/590","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would further ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3451.0,3452.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/591","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nreduce polio, which it did. In fact, some countries in Europe","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3452.0,3457.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/592","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"never did shift to Sabin vaccine, and they managed to eradicate polio also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3457.0,3463.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/593","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it wasn't really quite clear, but one thing that was clearly known was that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3463.0,3470.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/594","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Salk vaccine did not do a very good job about creating mucosal immunity. Sabin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3470.0,3477.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/595","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine did, because it infected the gut and produced mucosal immunity. People","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3477.0,3483.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/596","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who had been immunized with Sabin vaccine no longer could act as links in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3483.0,3490.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/597","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"chain of infection. Salk vaccinees were protected against paralytic paralysis,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3490.0,3495.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/598","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but could still get infected and pass the virus on, could act as links in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3495.0,3503.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/599","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"chain of infection. So that was one of the arguments. And Sabin vaccine was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3503.0,3510.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/600","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cheaper to make and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3510.0,3512.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/601","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\neasier to administer, no injections, just virus on a sugar","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3512.0,3517.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/602","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"pill was a drop of vaccine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3517.0,3520.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/603","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sabin vaccine was introduced, and in spite of that, there was still a residual","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3520.0,3527.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/604","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of kids who had never been immunized. I mean no program is 100 percent, and in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3527.0,3535.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/605","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the United States there was something like ten million kids not immunized. At","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3535.0,3541.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/606","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"any one point in time, even after Sabin vaccine was introduced, there were ten","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3541.0,3548.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/607","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"million unimmunized individuals. And it was thought that the same ten million","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3548.0,3554.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/608","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would be sufficient to keep the wild polio virus circulating, even though the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3554.0,3560.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/609","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rest of the population was immune.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3560.0,3563.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/610","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Suddenly, without anybody predicting it, and sort of interesting, in the early","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3563.0,3569.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/611","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1970s, and particularly about 1972, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3569.0,3571.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/612","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nit suddenly became apparent that we had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3571.0,3574.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/613","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eradicated polio, wild polio, in the US. There was none. That was only","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3574.0,3580.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/614","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"recognized in retrospect. That was not predicted by anybody, although some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3580.0,3585.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/615","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people might, in retrospect, deny that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3585.0,3588.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/616","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Suddenly, the whole idea of eradicating polio came out of that. A guy named Ciro","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3588.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/617","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"de Quadros, who ran a polio program for the Pan American Health Organization,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3595.0,3601.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/618","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"part of WHO [World Health Organization], located in Washington, decided to push","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3601.0,3606.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/619","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this for South America, and he eradicated polio in South America using Sabin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3606.0,3612.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/620","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine. Meanwhile, of course, in Cuba, which is only a small island, they had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3612.0,3618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/621","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"done the same. So suddenly, there was no wild polio in the whole of the western","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3618.0,3625.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/622","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hemisphere, and that led in 1988 to the WHO waking up and saying, let's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3625.0,3631.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/623","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"eradicate polio for the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3631.0,3633.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/624","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nworld. If you can do it in the western hemisphere, why","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3633.0,3639.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/625","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not the world? As I say, the rest is history, although it's a rather complicated history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3639.0,3647.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/626","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So do you think it was linked to, because smallpox had been eradicated","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3647.0,3654.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/627","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shortly before this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3654.0,3656.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/628","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, no, no, no. The assumption is, a perfectly reasonable assumption","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3656.0,3662.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/629","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was, if you do the numbers, based either on immunization histories or on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3662.0,3669.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/630","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"serological surveys in a large population, there would be a small percentage,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3669.0,3675.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/631","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but still a very substantial number of people, at any one point in time, mainly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3675.0,3683.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/632","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"kids, who are not immunized, had never been infected, who had never been","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3683.0,3690.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/633","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccinated. It was assumed that they could continue to circulate the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3690.0,3696.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/634","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nvirus. In","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3696.0,3697.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/635","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fact, it was a mystery why they didn't. That's the reason it wasn't predicted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3697.0,3704.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/636","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It wasn't out of stupidity, it was the assumption, a very plausible assumption.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3704.0,3711.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/637","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think the reason, and we've written papers about this back twenty-odd years","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3711.0,3718.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/638","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ago, the reason was what I mentioned before: the seasonality of polio. What one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3718.0,3725.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/639","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"has to understand is that in the low part of the season, there's almost no polio","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3725.0,3733.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/640","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"transmission, and that's in March of each year. The difference between the high","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3733.0,3740.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/641","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the low is extraordinary. The reason, likely, is that in the low the virus","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3740.0,3748.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/642","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just disappeared entirely in an immunized population, because even though there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3748.0,3754.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/643","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3754.0,3755.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/644","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfew unimmunized people, there was so little natural transmission that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3755.0,3760.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/645","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they weren't sufficient to maintain the virus. It just disappeared.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3760.0,3765.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/646","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What happened in the period from the mid-'60s to 1972, as we look at it, the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3765.0,3772.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/647","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"number of states with no polio for a whole year gradually increased. Well, in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3772.0,3779.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/648","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the early 1960s, every state reported polio every year. Gradually, it went from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3779.0,3785.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/649","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fifty to forty-five to forty to thirty-five, and over a period of years, polio","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3785.0,3792.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/650","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"gradually disappeared. Nobody really recognized this, and then suddenly it was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3792.0,3797.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/651","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"gone. Of course there was a lot of live virus around, but there was live Sabin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3797.0,3804.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/652","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccine virus, but there was no wild virus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3804.0,3808.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/653","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, along with this were new methods to be able to easily distinguish the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3808.0,3815.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/654","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sabin viruses ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3815.0,3816.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/655","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nfrom wild polio viruses based on genetics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3816.0,3821.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/656","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Speaking of that, there was a case, Reyes v. Wyeth. Is it true that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3821.0,3831.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/657","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you were called on to testify in that trial?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3831.0,3837.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/658","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yeah, I'd forgotten. That's a long time ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3837.0,3843.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/659","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It was an 8-month-old Texas girl. She got the Sabin vaccine, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3843.0,3852.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/660","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"several weeks later she became paralyzed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3852.0,3856.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/661","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: First of all, the CDC started to collect, right from the beginning,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3856.0,3865.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/662","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"collect cases of what's called vaccine-associated paralytic polio, VAPP. It","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3865.0,3872.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/663","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"turned out that there was a clear ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3872.0,3877.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/664","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\npattern, and what we now know in retrospect","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3877.0,3882.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/665","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"is, for every million kids who got their first shot of Sabin vaccine and who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3882.0,3893.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/666","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"susceptible, these are babies, infants, or toddlers, who are totally","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3893.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/667","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"susceptible, for every million, there are about two cases of paralytic polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3900.0,3908.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/668","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some of these occur in immunologically deficient kids and some occurred in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3908.0,3916.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/669","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"perfectly normal kids.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3916.0,3918.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/670","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out also that if you collected enough of these cases, there weren't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3918.0,3927.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/671","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"many of them over a period of years, there was a clear pattern. They ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3927.0,3936.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/672","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nall had","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3936.0,3937.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/673","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"onset within a relatively short period of time after getting the vaccine. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3937.0,3942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/674","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there were all sorts of people who were trying to extract money from the drug","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3942.0,3948.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/675","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers for cases that occurred that were not related to the vaccine,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3948.0,3953.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/676","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because they were outside of this epidemiological window, which was a very short window.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3953.0,3959.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/677","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As I remember, that was one of those cases, but I'd have to look. I just don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3959.0,3966.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/678","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember the details of that case. But there were certainly a lot of trials, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3966.0,3972.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/679","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically what we testified was, this is the window, and if your case conforms","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3972.0,3978.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/680","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to what we know epidemiologically, then one has to assume its cause and effect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3978.0,3984.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/681","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If it's outside that window, then there are other reasons of what's going on:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3984.0,3990.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/682","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"either it isn't polio, or they weren't properly vaccinated and it was wild","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3990.0,3995.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/683","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"virus, or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3995.0,3996.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/684","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwhatever. There are a number of reasons why, but when you give all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=3996.0,4002.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/685","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that vaccine, there are going to be by happenstance cases of this and that. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4002.0,4009.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/686","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't remember the details of the Reyes case, frankly. I'm sure if I looked at","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4009.0,4016.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/687","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it I would, but it's a long time ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4016.0,4020.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/688","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Having been the author of the seminal paper on the Cutter incident,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4020.0,4026.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/689","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you with Alex Langmuir, you must have been called on a lot to be an expert","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4026.0,4033.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/690","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"witness for certain things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4033.0,4035.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/691","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, actually, yeah. There was a time when I was, and I mainly would","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4035.0,4042.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/692","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"look at the cases, as I say, testify in support of a manufacturer when I thought","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4042.0,4049.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/693","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that the case didn't meet the epidemiological criteria. In general, I think the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4049.0,4055.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/694","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"manufacturers, I don't know what they ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4055.0,4058.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/695","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ndid, negotiated settlements for the cases","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4058.0,4060.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/696","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that clearly fell within the associated parameters. Yes, I was involved, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4060.0,4065.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/697","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's a long time ago. So over a period of maybe ten or fifteen years, I may have","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4065.0,4072.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/698","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"testified in a dozen cases. I don't really remember. Somebody has a record of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4072.0,4077.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/699","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, but I don't remember exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4077.0,4079.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/700","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It was all because you came in March of 1955 to CDC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4079.0,4084.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/701","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, you could put it that way. It was all happenstance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4084.0,4089.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/702","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: And you were the right person for the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4089.0,4093.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/703","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I don't know that I was the right person. Somebody else might","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4093.0,4098.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/704","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have done just as well, to put it bluntly. I was totally unprepared, and in no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4098.0,4104.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/705","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"way would I have been considered the right person for the job, based on my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4104.0,4110.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/706","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"training I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4110.0,4111.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/707","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Just to go back a little bit, do you remember if you worked with the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4111.0,4117.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/708","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nlab at all? Did Epi [Epidemiology Division] and the labs work together?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4117.0,4122.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/709","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Alex had his own feet of clay, and one of the things was, he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4122.0,4129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/710","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"totally hostile to laboratory people. He was just crazy about that. Alex made","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4129.0,4135.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/711","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other total crazy mistakes. He predicted, when AIDS [acquired immune deficiency","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4135.0,4140.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/712","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"syndrome] first came along, that it was just going to be a passing problem. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4140.0,4147.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/713","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't know if there is a record about that, but yeah. He totally pooh-poohed it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4147.0,4154.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/714","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as a major problem at its very beginning. But Alex had a peculiarity that he","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4154.0,4161.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/715","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"believed in the shoe-leather epidemiology. But he was, for some reason, and I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4161.0,4167.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/716","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't know where this came from, totally hostile to laboratory support of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4167.0,4172.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/717","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiological studies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4172.0,4173.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/718","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At that time, CDC was in its ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4173.0,4176.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/719","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\ninfancy. It was maybe 1 percent of the size it is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4176.0,4181.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/720","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now. The laboratory, for some reason, was someplace in Montgomery, Alabama, as I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4181.0,4187.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/721","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember, and he was totally at odds with the guy. It was [Dr.] Morris Schaeffer","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4187.0,4194.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/722","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who was in charge of the laboratory. They never worked together. It was one of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4194.0,4201.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/723","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"his blind spots. And in fact the laboratory is obviously critical, even if it's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4201.0,4207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/724","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just simple-minded tests for immunity of whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4207.0,4210.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/725","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alex never worked well with laboratory people, and that was clearly his","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4210.0,4215.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/726","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"limitation. He never paid any attention to what anybody else ever said about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4215.0,4221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/727","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So as a consequence, you didn't work with lab people either?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4221.0,4226.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/728","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, no, no. Let me put it this way: I think he would have said we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4226.0,4233.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/729","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could solve the Cutter incident without any lab ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4233.0,4236.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/730","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\npeople, without needing any lab","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4236.0,4239.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/731","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people, so the hell with them. We don't need them. They're extraneous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4239.0,4246.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/732","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out that in fact they were relevant because, let me mention one","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4246.0,4254.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/733","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"instance, because there were vials of all these different vaccines during/after","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4254.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/734","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Cutter incident that various people had in their freezers. And it turned out","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4260.0,4268.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/735","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that when the laboratory retested them, they could isolate wild virus from some","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4268.0,4275.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/736","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of these batches of vaccine from the Cutter. In fact, they could confirm that in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4275.0,4283.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/737","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fact there was residual live virus. And that's just one example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4283.0,4289.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/738","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Another example, by the way, where the laboratory was really critical was in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4289.0,4296.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/739","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4296.0,4297.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/740","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basic Francis Field Trial. Because what they did, they had measured the antibody","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4297.0,4304.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/741","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"responses of the kids who got the Salk vaccine. They could therefore determine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4304.0,4311.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/742","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what proportion had titers at each level, and it turned out that the protection","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4311.0,4319.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/743","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"correlated with everybody who had a titer of 1:8 or 1:4 or higher, I think it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4319.0,4328.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/744","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was 1:8. It turned out that what that proved was that if you were going to test","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4328.0,4337.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/745","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a vaccine, all you had to do was show that it had induced a neutralizing","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4337.0,4345.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/746","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"antibody titer of 1:8 or greater, and that proportion of individuals would be","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4345.0,4352.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/747","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"protected. So that's a really critical example of the epidemiology ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4352.0,4357.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/748","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nand lab","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4357.0,4358.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/749","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"working together. That was the Francis Field Trial. Alex, he ignored all that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4358.0,4364.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/750","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a blind side. I was just a protégé. I never argued that with him. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4364.0,4372.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/751","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other people did, but they didn't get anywhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4372.0,4376.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/752","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Through the years you've stayed involved and interested in polio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4376.0,4381.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/753","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, yeah. When I went to Bodian's lab, I worked on polio for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4381.0,4387.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/754","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically half a dozen years in monkeys. And then I moved over to the School of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4387.0,4394.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/755","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public Health and I moved on to other viruses, because I was really interested,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4394.0,4400.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/756","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basically, in how viruses cause disease, and polio was sort or passé at this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4400.0,4406.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/757","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"point. The vaccines were out there. They were working. And so I moved on to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4406.0,4413.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/758","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other viruses in other animal models, and that's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4413.0,4417.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/759","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nbasically what I spent my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4417.0,4420.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/760","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"career on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4420.0,4421.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/761","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Did you get involved in the discussion about polio eradication?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4421.0,4427.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/762","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, only indirectly. I've certainly not been very central to it. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4427.0,4434.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/763","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did publish a couple of review pieces: one on the epidemiology, which touched on","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4434.0,4442.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/764","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all that, and there were two versions of that. One around 1980, and the other I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4442.0,4451.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/765","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"think around 2010. And then also around that time I did publish a review about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4451.0,4460.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/766","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the pathogenesis of polio called, \"What We Don't Know About the Pathogenesis of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4460.0,4467.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/767","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Polio.\" So mainly it was in terms of review articles and so forth, so I really ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4467.0,4476.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/768","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwasn't working in terms of laboratory. I was working on other viruses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4476.0,4482.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/769","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What's your thinking about the possibility of polio eradication?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4482.0,4487.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/770","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Polio eradication was going like gangbusters, as everybody knows, and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4487.0,4493.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/771","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's estimated that before there was any vaccine, there were, every year, around","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4493.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/772","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the globe, in terms of paralytic cases, about three hundred fifty thousand every","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4500.0,4507.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/773","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"year. We got to the point where we were down to the level of one to two","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4507.0,4516.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/774","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thousand. That's an enormous, over 99 percent reduction. At that point, it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4516.0,4522.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/775","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"looked like we were going to go to zero. The line was pointing down toward zero","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4522.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/776","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very sharply, and we ran into a brick wall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4530.0,4535.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/777","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It turned out, of course, that there ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4535.0,4539.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/778","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nwere three countries that were the problem:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4539.0,4542.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/779","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nigeria, northern Nigeria, India, northern India, and a region in Afghanistan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4542.0,4547.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/780","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the tribal areas of Pakistan, one contiguous area. In the last five or six","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4547.0,4554.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/781","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years, Nigeria has been cleaned up. First, India was cleaned up by an enormous","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4554.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/782","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"effort on the part of the Indian government. Then, Nigeria, on the part of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4560.0,4567.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/783","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nigerian government, all with some extraneous help, but mainly internal. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4567.0,4572.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/784","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"only one left of the three standouts, holdouts, are these tribal areas of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4572.0,4578.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/785","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Pakistan and a bit of Afghanistan, and it's all political. These folks who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4578.0,4584.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/786","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"running things, and of course it's a constant civil war, Taliban and so forth,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4584.0,4590.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/787","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"feel that it's a government program, and they're therefore not going to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4590.0,4595.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/788","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"participate because it's done by the same ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4595.0,4598.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/789","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\npeople who have bombed their leaders","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4598.0,4601.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/790","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with drones and things like that. It's a totally political situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4601.0,4606.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/791","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is all hypothetical: if there was a ceasefire for a week and you saturated","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4606.0,4613.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/792","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"those areas with Sabin vaccine, we probably could eradicate polio forever, wild","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4613.0,4618.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/793","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio. Then there's the issue of shifting from wild polio, from a Sabin vaccine","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4618.0,4624.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/794","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to Salk vaccine. That's another issue, but you probably could get rid of wild","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4624.0,4630.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/795","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"polio very quickly, as has been done in Cuba and so forth by mass immunization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4630.0,4637.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/796","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's all political issue, and who knows, I mean, it's been tied up with the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4637.0,4644.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/797","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"politics of, these people are very anti-USA. The vaccine is associated with the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4644.0,4650.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/798","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"USA, so we won't do it. They don't give a damn about their kids all getting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4650.0,4657.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/799","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nparalyzed. These people, by our standards, are willing to sacrifice the welfare","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4657.0,4664.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/800","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of their kids in support of their political views. So, who knows? You'd have to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4664.0,4672.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/801","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talk to the experts on the politics of that area to find out whether it's ever","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4672.0,4681.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/802","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"plausible. I mean, as I say, there are precedents, where there's a civil war,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4681.0,4689.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/803","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for having a moratorium for a week or two, doing your vaccine, then going back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4689.0,4697.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/804","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to killing everybody. What can I say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4697.0,4701.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/805","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Sounds sort of counterintuitive, doesn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4701.0,4705.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/806","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, the world's full of counterintuitive happenings right now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4705.0,4710.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/807","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: I've had you talking for over an hour, so I imagine you're getting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4710.0,4718.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/808","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n tired.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4718.0,4718.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/809","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: No, I think we should go ahead and just finish up whatever you want","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4718.0,4725.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/810","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4725.0,4726.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/811","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So I wondered if there are any other things that you wanted to talk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4726.0,4733.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/812","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about related to polio or your time at CDC, or other people you worked with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4733.0,4740.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/813","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"during that time that you wanted to mention? Did you happen to work with [Dr.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4740.0,4747.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/814","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Phil Brachman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4747.0,4748.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/815","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I know him, certainly. No, I didn't work with him, but he was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4748.0,4755.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/816","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"certainly a colleague at CDC. Let me comment about one thing. Can I comment","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4755.0,4762.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/817","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about a totally different subject?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4762.0,4764.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/818","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4764.0,4765.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/819","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: And that's about an ongoing epidemic in the United States, and that's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4765.0,4771.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/820","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the AIDS epidemic. I'll make two comments about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4771.0,4775.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/821","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nthis. One is, as you know, I ran","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4775.0,4779.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/822","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the office of AIDS research for two and a half years. Two comments: one about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4779.0,4786.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/823","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the vaccine development program for AIDS. We have spent more money without a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4786.0,4792.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/824","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"result on trying to develop an AIDS vaccine than any other vaccine ever invented","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4792.0,4798.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/825","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the world. In fact, you could probably put together twenty different viral","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4798.0,4804.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/826","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"vaccines, the cost of developing them, and it would be less, in the aggregate of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4804.0,4811.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/827","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"twenty, than what has been spent on trying to make an AIDS vaccine. In my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4811.0,4818.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/828","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"opinion, that's because the field is narrowed down much too rapidly on options.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4818.0,4824.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/829","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I really think that the AIDS vaccine development program, we're talking about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4824.0,4830.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/830","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investing, at least globally, probably a couple billion dollars a year on ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4830.0,4836.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/831","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nresearch, and it really needs to be re-looked at with a much more open mind, one point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4836.0,4845.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/832","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other point is this: in AIDS right now, the mantra of the month or maybe the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4845.0,4854.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/833","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"year is curing AIDS in the individual. I think that is a totally misguided goal","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4854.0,4862.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/834","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it is impossible to reach, and that it totally diverts attention from what","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4862.0,4869.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/835","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we should be talking about, which is curing the population and not the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4869.0,4876.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/836","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"individual. Furthermore, we do not have the tools to cure the individual, but we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4876.0,4883.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/837","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"do have the tools to cure the population. I think it's a national disgrace","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4883.0,4890.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/838","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because we do have the tools, a national disgrace that the incidence of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4890.0,4897.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/839","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nAIDS has","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4897.0,4898.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/840","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not decreased in the last twenty-plus years. And let me just stop there and say","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4898.0,4904.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/841","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the number of new infections for HIV is the most important criteria, and for any","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4904.0,4910.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/842","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemic, and what you want, of course, is to get to a situation where each year","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4910.0,4916.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/843","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there are fewer and fewer new infections that eventually go to zero. That's sort","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4916.0,4921.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/844","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of Epi 101.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4921.0,4922.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/845","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the United States, as maybe your listeners all know, the number of new","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4922.0,4927.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/846","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"infections in the United States, about fifty thousand a year or so, hasn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4927.0,4932.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/847","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dropped for about twenty to twenty-five years. Yet we have the tools to really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4932.0,4937.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/848","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reduce this, and I think that's a national disgrace that is more of political","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4937.0,4942.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/849","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"problem than any other thing. I think we should be, as a country, ashamed of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4942.0,4948.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/850","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ourselves for having done so badly in the effort to control HIV and AIDS.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4948.0,4953.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/851","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those are maybe my eccentric ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4953.0,4955.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/852","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nviews, and I think the problem starts at the White","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4955.0,4959.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/853","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"House and goes on down. AIDS is a forgotten issue, and people are talking about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4959.0,4965.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/854","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a world without AIDS but aren't doing a fucking thing about it, to put it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4965.0,4971.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/855","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bluntly, in terms of really reducing the annual number of new infections. I","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4971.0,4977.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/856","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could go on from there, but since you asked for some further comments about","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4977.0,4983.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/857","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other things, to me that's more important than the polio thing, or very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4983.0,4989.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/858","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"important anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4989.0,4990.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/859","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: What would you do for the population?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4990.0,4993.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/860","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, as I say, the tools are there. Remember, we have cleaned up the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4993.0,4999.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/861","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"blood supply, at least in the United States and other civilized countries, for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=4999.0,5005.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/862","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all practical purposes. We have eliminated pediatric, that is, newborn, AIDS for","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5005.0,5010.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/863","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all practical purposes, and one thing that we could do is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5010.0,5015.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/864","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\neliminate AIDS in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5015.0,5017.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/865","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"injecting drug users by making freely available clean needles and syringes. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5017.0,5023.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/866","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that certainly works where it's been done, so that's one thing we could do. The","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5023.0,5031.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/867","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other thing is that two-thirds of the AIDS that are now occurring is in the gay population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5031.0,5040.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/868","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, of course, one of the reasons why AIDS, and again, this is a political","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5040.0,5048.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/869","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"statement, has been forgotten is because the primary victims are either the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5048.0,5054.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/870","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"homeless, drug users, or African-American men and the gay population, all of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5054.0,5060.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/871","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whom are disempowered populations. If this was occurring in white women, we","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5060.0,5066.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/872","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would have done something. Basically, you need to go in with a lot more money","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5066.0,5074.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/873","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and with a very activist ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5074.0,5077.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/874","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nprogram. Between PEP [post-exposure prophylaxis] and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5077.0,5080.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/875","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"PrEP [pre-exposure prophylaxis] and condoms and a whole variety of other things,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5080.0,5085.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/876","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it is possible to reduce transmission. In spite of the present, very effective","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5085.0,5091.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/877","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"therapies, it's much better to live without AIDS than to live with AIDS, even if","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5091.0,5098.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/878","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it's just one pill a day. There are all sorts of other complications living that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5098.0,5105.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/879","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"way, which are becoming more and more apparent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5105.0,5109.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/880","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think there are a variety of things that could be done, and we probably need","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5109.0,5116.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/881","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to start out with picking a few cities which are hot spots that are interested,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5116.0,5123.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/882","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and where the Department of Public Health is interested, and really throwing a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5123.0,5129.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/883","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"massive effort in to prove that as a prototype that you really could do","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5129.0,5135.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/884","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something. I think it's doable, and certainly what I do ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5135.0,5139.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/885","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nknow: we're certainly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5139.0,5140.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/886","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not making the effort that we should be making in order to really try a whole","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5140.0,5146.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/887","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"variety of things. I think some of the people at CDC who are in charge of the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5146.0,5152.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/888","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"AIDS program are very, very good people and, if given the mandate and the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5152.0,5157.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/889","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resources, could accomplish a lot. But it needs to start with the White House","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5157.0,5162.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/890","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and go all the way down. It has been a lost cause because the people who are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5162.0,5168.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/891","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"impacted are disempowered, and so they have been ignored. I mean, that's a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5168.0,5173.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/892","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political statement, but I think it is very much a political situation. Enough","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5173.0,5178.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/893","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"said, my crotchety views.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5178.0,5179.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/894","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: So you would maybe reallocate some of the money used for vaccines?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5179.0,5184.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/895","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: I wouldn't reallocate anything. If the public health service has","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5184.0,5188.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/896","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"close to a billion dollars to work on AIDS, or half a billion, I would add a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5188.0,5194.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/897","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"couple of billion dollars and a mandate. But I would ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5194.0,5198.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/898","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nalso insist that the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5198.0,5200.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/899","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political leadership of the country really get on top of this and really push","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5200.0,5207.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/900","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it. I would go maybe to San Francisco, and the folks there are very, very good,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5207.0,5215.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/901","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and it's one of the hot spots where you probably could, with sufficient","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5215.0,5221.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/902","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resources, use that as a prototype. I've forgotten her name, but the chief AIDS","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5221.0,5228.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/903","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"epidemiologist in San Francisco in the Department of Public Health is really","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5228.0,5234.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/904","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"excellent. I think if you gave her a carte blanche and told her, there's no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5234.0,5241.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/905","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"limit on the resources you have, but go do it, I bet we could do it in San","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5241.0,5250.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/906","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Francisco. And then we could build on that for other cities. It's idiotic not to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5250.0,5257.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/907","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nprevent needle exchanges and so forth. So what can I say? Again, it's all","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5257.0,5265.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/908","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political, and if it weren't for the self-righteous folks who think that people","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5265.0,5272.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/909","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who are drug abusers should die of AIDS, we would make needles freely available,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5272.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/910","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"harm reduction. What can I say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5280.0,5283.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/911","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It's a great public health message.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5283.0,5287.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/912","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: It is a public health message, yeah. It's true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5287.0,5292.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/913","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Well, thank you very much. This has been very interesting, and I know","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5292.0,5300.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/914","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now why everyone said to ask Neal Nathanson when I had questions!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5300.0,5306.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/915","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Well, I hope so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5306.0,5309.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/916","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: It's been a pleasure talking to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5309.0,5313.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/917","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NATHANSON: Yeah, me too, Karen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5313.0,5316.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/918","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"TORGHELE: Thanks so ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5316.0,5318.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/919","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n much!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5318.0,5348.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/transcript/69552/annotation/920","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1 ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=5348.0,5378.0"}]},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/index/85121","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["content172428244020240821-522984-8mfzmg.xml [English] [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/index/85121/annotation/921","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Training in epidemiology/work with Alex Langmuir","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083#t=0.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://globalhealthchronicles.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2846/collection_resources/133960/file/249083/index/85121/annotation/922","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Nathanson describes about what it was like to train in epidemiology under Alexander Langmuir and early discoveries about flaws in the Cutter laboratory vaccines.  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